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How to Ground a Storage Structure

03/19/2009 8:26 AM

hi all;

i am designing grounding project for airfield storage structure. its size is 15x36 m.i use galvanized steel strip(30x3 cm) and galvanized rods.but inspector told me that according to national electrical codes i must use 70mm2 bare copper as a conductor and copper rods..what do everybody think??

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#1

Re: How to Ground an Airfield Storage Structure

03/19/2009 8:35 AM

Er, so what happens should the steel corrode over time?

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#2

Re: How to Ground a Storage Structure

03/19/2009 9:11 AM

i am asking that is it mandatory to use copper conductor and copper rod according to NEC standards.

i would like to use galvanized steel strip becase i have lots of galvanized steel strip at construction site.

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#6
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Re: How to Ground a Storage Structure

03/19/2009 3:29 PM

i would like to use galvanized steel strip becase i have lots of galvanized steel strip at construction site.

Galvanized steel is not a suitable earth conductor. Unless the NEC standard specifically allows a different material and design for the earthing of your particular application you are stuck with having to use copper.

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#18
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Re: How to Ground a Storage Structure

03/20/2009 7:03 PM

You may also have a few 2x4s. You wouldn't think to use them as ground rods, now would you? I myself have never seen anybody use anything but coppercoated steel rods, or copper grid.

Last I noticed even at the height of the cost of copper, a six foot grounding rod, was not all that expensive. (Driving them in with a HammerDrill is superior to the sledgehammer for sure.)

If you've ever had a galvanized garbage can with a corroded out bottom, you can quick grasp galvanized is inferior.

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#3

Re: How to Ground a Storage Structure

03/19/2009 10:22 AM

but inspector told me

Even if you can make a sensible argument, this is still the guy who has to sign off, right?

Going against your inspector can be very bad - even if you are correct.

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#4
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Re: How to Ground a Storage Structure

03/19/2009 10:39 AM

yes u are right going against to inspector can be bad but it is not our subject or my question!!!!

the work has to be done has to be parallel with standards.right???

also i have to take into consideration my pocket.!!

economy comes first...

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#5

Re: How to Ground a Storage Structure

03/19/2009 2:23 PM

Dear akinbaglan,

The grounding of your structure is first about safety to human life, and second about protecting the structure. This is not an area where you can protect your pocket book.

Can you estimate for us what would be your cost if the galvanized straps corrode around the connection (look up galvanic action), something fails and a worker is killed or injured.

How does that cost now compare to the cost of copper rods and copper wire?

Yes the NEC calls for copper driven rods and/or UFER which is steel re-bar in the concrete. There is an entire chapter devoted to this in the NEC. It's worth a read I think.

Regards, CJM

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#7

Re: How to Ground a Storage Structure

03/19/2009 9:28 PM

What do I think... the only way to go is follow what is in effect in the codes of your area. If the NEC is in effect in your area then follow it. Especially at an airfield.

Choosing not to... you might want to make sure your "errors and omissions" insurance coverage is up to date and current all the time.

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#8

Re: How to Ground a Storage Structure

03/19/2009 11:59 PM

Hello akinbaglan,

I have constructed a lot of steel buildings, some of them at airports. And several for the Florida National Guard, and one of them was at a bombing range. I can tell you that I placed copper plated ground rods at two opposite corners of every one of them. Steel buildings make very good ground planes for lightning. The NEC requires at least two rods placed on opposite corners connected to the steel frames by a heavy braided ground strap. It is wise to have your electrician conduct a test of the grounding equipment to insure that it is functioning correctly. There are areas where the soil does not contain sufficient ability to ground electricity of any origination. In such cases you may have to connect two rods together so as to double the length in order to get an acceptable reading. You can object, but it isn't going to do you any good. Do it right, and sleep at night.

TooMuchFun

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#9
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Re: How to Ground a Storage Structure

03/20/2009 1:06 AM

In NY State, two ground rods 'must be connected' to each other, forming a loop to the main panel ground bar. Cu is code. No more Aluminum.

I would scrape any paint off the connection and grease all connections. Add GFIs and a spark arrestor.

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#10
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Re: How to Ground a Storage Structure

03/20/2009 1:31 AM

Tippy, When did code go to Cu? Or is this not residential you are referring to?

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#11
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Re: How to Ground a Storage Structure

03/20/2009 1:59 AM

I don't know the date Jim, but when I built my shop back in '88 that's what I was told by the Inspector, and I sure warn't arguin' w/ that feller.

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#12
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Re: How to Ground a Storage Structure

03/20/2009 2:13 AM

I've installed many residential 200A services for the past 3 years using 2 Al gnd rods 6' apart with #4 bare copper stranded loop and all passed inspections. In process of doing another now. Which unknown of any recent code changes. But this is residential only. Airports and some municipalities must be Cu. Also I'm in Greene County. Inspectors do not recognize 2005 code yet.

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#14
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Re: How to Ground a Storage Structure

03/20/2009 9:54 AM

Well Jim, You got me!? This is Delaware county. I know for a while there grounging codes were changing pretty fast around the 80s. My shop is the last thing I wired ('88). After that I built boats.

We're allowed galvanized or Cu sheathed ground rods. The connectors are some kind of bronze. The spacing and ground wire are the same. Adding 'Noalox' was the last change I heard of. There have been alot of changes to the code in the last 40 years, they all make sense. I DO know of one building inspector down in Dutchess Co. that added a further requirement to the nailing schedual, that I found out later was NOT on the books.

Anyway, that's what were all doing here, hashing out the details, and otherwise entertaining each other.

Regards, Carl

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#16
In reply to #14

Re: How to Ground a Storage Structure

03/20/2009 3:18 PM

Carl, You build boats? I was the electrical/propulsion guy for Elco Electric boats till we closed in Oct08. What kind of boats do you build?

Code changes are slow in this area. The biggest problem is the inspectors are part time and once they read and understand the code, they have a hard time keeping up with the newest and just don't like to adapt to current tech. Good example is the Arc Fault breakers. Currently not allowed for bedroom circuits, that was up to Jun08.

I would hope they would have updated their thinking by now.

Jim

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#17
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Re: How to Ground a Storage Structure

03/20/2009 4:08 PM

Hey Jim, I build WEST System wood/composite skiffs, sailboats, and canoes. The largest is a 28 foot sharpie 'Egret', now in Holland.

Seems I was on a collision course with one of your 'boats'. I'm close hauled on port tack trying to make the same channel off 'The Sound'. So I'm thinking (seriously) what does the 'rule' say about his stbd. right of way, my lack of engine, him being a U.S. Govt. vessel, and me being pisssed off if I have to tack, lose my 'line' and have to spend another 20 minutes in a cold, snotty chop. Another 50 yds. and I'll either make the channel, or I'll wind up a hood orniment on a submarine. His skipper and I are eyeballing each other as intently as any race start. Just as I was ready to call 'ready about', I hear a 'wooup', he dives, and dissapears without a ripple in 20 seconds. I ran right over his swell (eirie feeling, going up and down on what appears to be flat water), tacked a minute later, and made the channel. Nothing quite like playing chicken with a nuclear powered sub!. I felt that 'rise' twice more in the channel to Groten. That was a helluva 5 day trip, skippering for a guy with nothing but money and a boat. That's why sailing beats golf any day.

Sorry you got 'downsized'. Be well, Carl

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#13

Re: How to Ground a Storage Structure

03/20/2009 2:30 AM

thanks to all of you..for your answers..

take care

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#15

Re: How to Ground a Storage Structure

03/20/2009 2:33 PM

The steel towers (radio or comunication service,for example) held by guywires or by its own, always are grounded as your inspector says even being steel in all its length.The standards are made to be easily checked by anyone,so may be you are wright in your calculations but who knows?.-

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akinbaglan (3); CJMcGill (1); edignan (1); ferquiza (1); jack of all trades (1); Jimh77 (3); North of 60 (1); PWSlack (1); Tippycanoe (4); Toomuchfun (1); Transcendian (1)

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