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Lead Calcium Plates Dumped into Sodium Bicarbonate Solution

04/21/2009 4:52 AM

Okay, here is the deal

I pulled apart a "dead" sealed lead acid battery that has Lead Calcium plates. I pulled the plates off their rails and dumped them into a solution containing Bicarbonate Soda and tap water. I dumped the negative plates in, I have not tried the positive plates yet.

So having watched the bubbles and Googled 'till I was blue in the face, what is happening to cause the bubbles?

I believe the plates were sulfated to start with, which "killed" the battery and became victim to my bored musings

Could you please let me know what bubbles are being given off and is it the sulfated gunk being removed from the plates, or something more sinister

Found a cool site if you are into lead acid batteries, my payment for your answers ... LINK

Cheers

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#1

Re: Lead Calcium plates dumped into sodium Bicarbonate Solution

04/21/2009 5:04 AM
  • If the gas doesn't smell, then it's CO2. If it does, and it's a bit like a bag of salt-and-vinegar crisps, then it's got SO2 in it.
  • If there's SO2, then the SO42- is being dissolved and replaced with CO32-.
  • Na2SO4 is readily soluble, and will rinse away easily with water.
  • CaSO4 is insoluble ("gypsum").
  • CaCO3 is insoluble ("chalk").

The chemistry of the battery is based upon the Pb - H2SO4 - PbSO4 relationship. The next step is a scramble through Wikipedia looking for "lead acid batteries" and their chemistry.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Lead Calcium plates dumped into sodium Bicarbonate Solution

04/21/2009 6:44 AM

Yeah, smells like salt and vinegar chips, haven't done the taste test though

Thanks for your quick response.

Not sure about the correctness of the insoluble state of Ca compounded with either CO3 or SO4, but that is not the point of my query

From what you are saying, basically the Sulfur is being told to bugger off and replaced by a Carbon?

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Lead Calcium plates dumped into sodium Bicarbonate Solution

04/21/2009 8:20 AM

<...the Sulfur is being told to bugger off and replaced by a Carbon...>

Not elemental sulphur nor elemental carbon. Sulphate and carbonate. The electochemistry of the cell will determine whether the carbonate becomes attached to the calcium or to the lead. Lead carbonate doesn't sound like it's the sort of stuff that is wanted in a lead-acid battery, whereas lead sulphate certainly is - in the right place. Anyway, replenishing the electrolyte later with sulphuric acid will certainly drive off any carbon dioxide from any carbonates present, replacing them with sulphites and sulphates.

Whether a useful battery will result after all this chemistry has been done to it others might wish to chime in on?

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Lead Calcium plates dumped into sodium Bicarbonate Solution

04/22/2009 11:17 PM

Yeah. thanks for the correction.

It is my belief from researching on the web, that the VRLA lead acid batteries (Valve Regulated Lead Acid) use AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) as between plate insulators and also doubles as a medium to hold the electrolyte and reduce loss of Oxygen and Hydrogen. The VRLA batteries also use a lead calcium grid for their plates as opposed to Lead-Antinomy.

The positive plate (after "forming") has a paste covering the plate made up of PbO2

The negative plate (after "forming") has Pb.

As a result of normal chemical reactions during normal use of a battery, both negative and positive plates also contain in addition, varying amounts of PbSO4

Out of boredom I pulled my dead VRLA apart and dunked the plates into a mix of water and sodium bicarbonate. Much happy bubbling was observed and the smell of my favorite Smith's salt and vinegar chips ensued.

I was just curious as to what has happening here and thanks for answering my question.

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#4

Re: Lead Calcium Plates Dumped into Sodium Bicarbonate Solution

04/22/2009 9:29 AM

I've heard of a very old method of getting a sulphated battery back into operation by using Epson salts. You dump the acid and fill the battery with Epson salts disolved in water. Let this sit and then flush the battery and refill with acid. It's reputed to work by removing the sulphates from the plates, but I have never tried it. A lot of messing around with acid.

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