Tire Noise

Okay I'll bite. What does the noise sound like, is it a drowning type sound or constant? Is it a whining or growling or squeaking sound and does it occur when in reverse?

Don't bite.

The noise develops as the vehicle increases in speed, in drive. From 0-45mph I notice it.

Just had it in the shop for PM and they didn't mention it.

I think it's tire noise. Have you had a similar experience?

Have the tire dealer check for roundness, sometimes this is an early warning sign of tires running out of round and/or bad camber adjustment.

Is it a whining or growling or squeaking sound?

That's the kids in the back seat.

There are many ways to get some answers. Raise the air pressure to the max allowed. Lower the tire pressure till they are soft walled. If the noise changes, it was tires.

You can drive next to a wall with a window down. The noise will bounce off the wall and become clear. You could switch the tires front to back. That should change the sound if it is tires. You can rub your hand along the tread of the tires, and feel for unevenness. If a tire makes noise, it usually will have worn highs and lows into the thread surface. Good luck.

Tires are smooth to the touch, and flat. Had them rotated at last PM. No sign of abnormal wear, just more noise. Not a periodic noise, as with any imbalance, just a tread noise, I guess.

Maybe I'm just looking for an excuse to buy new tires.

Thanks

does the noise change pitch or volume when you get on the gas and then off? Rear axle pinion bearings are sensitive to engine load.

or dry?

NOT WITH MY FINGERS!! wear thick gloves..( a mirror and bright flashlight : imho: my 1st choice of tools for the inspection ) if IF what your hearing is the OGJECT thats impeded in your tire .. being ground down.. metal or something else sharpe...

If you have never had the pleasure of discovering the steel belts of your tire sticking into some of your fingers, you just can't appreciate how right you are. SORRY to all involved. Please watch out for imbedded objects and steel belts.

yes my bandages got in the way of my spell checking

bob c,

These things are so subtle, but the noise may have become more pronounced after I got it out of the shop where they had just rotated the tires.

I'm going to find a safe wall this weekend and do some drive bys.

Thanks.

Drive next to a concrete highway divider.

Find an open grate bridge and listen if the noise changes significantly when crossing it. If the noise goes away, its the tire. If not, check differential, bearings, something rubbing on the tire like a parking brake cable...

Jack it up and let the tire relax for a couple hours (out of the sun). Then put a runout gage on both the inside and outside parts of the tread (maybe 1/5 the way in). It'll be hard to read, and you'll need to rig some kind of averaging ball on the gage, but I'll bet you see tesselation.

I think TVP45 is suggesting you check for an initial condition of a broken belt which may not be clearly discernible by eye but may be discerned using a laser distance sensor. This sometimes causes a sound similar to that of a worn CV joint but as damage progresses will cause a jerking in the steering wheel.

The process TVP45 explained can also indicate an out of round tire either inherent to the tire or due a bad camber adjustment may cause a tire to wear out of round and often produce an out of roundness condition to the inside or outside of tire tread.

Here is a good article of the subject.

According to my shop, which I trust, they went through the entire front end. they replaced one steering component that was almost out of spec at last PM, so should be OK.

I'll check runout this weekend, and flatness of tread with vehicle off the ground.

Thanks

LL

Could there possibly be something intentionally molded into the tread to warn that its getting close to time to replace them? Just a guess...

For what it's worth, I've had several sets of Michelins, including my current tires, and have always been happy with them.

Have you swapped tyres front to back and see if the noise moves?

Too lazy to do that. I did take one off and look/feel it this morning. Then I had to quit that and cut the grass and clean the pool.

I'll probably take it back to the tire shop after I do some drive bys close to a wall today.

Could be wheel bearings. Jack the vehicle up and spin the tire by hand. Put an auto mechanics stethescope on the hub and listen for noise in the bearing. Could also be a dragging brake.

Many tires with 'aggressive tread pattern' will develop uneven trailing edge/leading edge wear on the tread blocks. If the tires are not rotated from front to opposite rear frequently (5000 miles) the wear pattern will progress to the point it makes significant tire/road interaction noise. The noise will likely get worse when the tires ARE so rotated if the wear was already enough to cause noise. The high spots will quickly wear down in the new mounting position.

If the tires are not asymetric, one can remount them with what was outside edge now inside and continue periodic rotating them on the vehicle to even out wear and minimize noise.

When tires get down to 25% or less of original tread depth, they are much more likely to hydroplane in water standing on the road, have much less wet traction, and are much more likely to get punctures. Also their grip in mud is very poor as compared to new.

What you say can only be true if the tyres are NOT of a type that are only allowed to run in one direction.....always check for such markings before doing such a swap.....even on vehicles that generally speaking, do not NEED to have such a tyre.....

Wrong rotation can cause severe early aquaplaning as the water would be compressed in the middle of the tread, instead of being thrown out to the sides....

The description is a result of tires oversize or unsuited to vehicle proportion.

The Ops tire tread is not of an aggressive type.

an aggressive type.

That sounds like the youngest of my three daughters.

...I have only 2 daughters, but the effect is the same.......!!!

Quit dithering around and buy the new tires already. Remember that an agressive tread will be more noisy than a highway / summer tread, though some of these enjoy a fairly high-pitched whine.

No! I won't! I'm too cheap to buy tires with plenty of tread left on my almost worn out set. I once asked for expert opinions on Al radiators and fittings and waited till I got the answer I wanted. Never heard from an expert, either. Just a bunch of guys with opinions.

Thanks!

A while back I was member of pit crew of race team and wow was a hoot but I let younger guys have a go now.

One thing that was done with tires then has held true since. When mounting new tire look for red and or yellow or white dot in sidewall. Access manufacturers designation code for representative colored dots; one maybe heavy spot at red dot or yellow depends on manufacturer. Line the dot indicating heavy spot with the valve stem and have tire trued to the wheel, balancing will be a breeze and wear will be extended too. When remounting mark stem location before hand.

Though you may cringe at the rubber removed after about 25% wear siping is a good strategy to retain fuel economy, quiet ride and traction.

If rotating move front wheels straight to the rear but cross rears wheels when moved to the front.

G'day, how old are the tyres? I've had this on a road car, I put the spare on after a flat and the spare makes a noise similar to what you are describing. Tyres are only supposed to last two years before they start to harden.

Another, although fiendish, thought is that the manufactures have built in a wear indicator strip into the treads to audibly warn that the tread is waring down.

Regards,

RRV

Nope! Tires are not that old. Wear bars are still .12 in. below tread.

"If rotating move front wheels straight to the rear but cross rears wheels when moved to the front." Are you sure?

Thanks!

It's a crap shoot, tire rotation should only occur to correct or offset and unusual wear pattern. However if an unusual wear pattern develops the best way to correct is by truing the tire. Since truing is a step in the process of siping rotation isn't actually relevant

In the past, I've found that after crossing the tires, causing them to rotate backwards, tread separations have occurred in radial tires. The multiple layers of rubber, synthetic cord and radial belts seem to take a rotationally induced set and reversing rotation forces them to flex in an opposite manner, causing the plys to de-bond. This is evidenced first by a shimmy in the steering wheel (front tire) or the seat of your pants (rear tire) from about 5 mph to about 35 mph. If de-bonding is severe enough, you will have material to make a pair of neat sandals.

In recent years, I understand that most of those problems have been designed out with better adhesives, but why take a chance. Just move them front to back at regular intervals, 5,000 to 8,000 miles. If you are finding irregular wear patterns, address the problem causing it before it becomes a serious issue instead of masking it by rotating.

Firstly great comments, not had the problem personally, but maybe its because I never cross over tires.....its something that I personally strongly believe in.....an old mechanic warned me about doing that sometime in the early 60s, he always knew what he was talking about!!

Today, here in Europe at least, there are many tires that are NOT allowed to be run "Backwards" even from new, as the are specially marked to show the allowed rotation when the car is going forward.

The reason being is that when rotating correctly on a rainy day, they pump the rainwater away from the tread. Put on the wrong way round, they would collect the rainwater into the middle of the tread, causing aquaplaning much earlier and very dangerously. These are called "Unidirectional" Tires.....

I found an interesting and informative document at:-

http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html

With plenty of good clear photos for anyone interested, for example:-

I just bought sets of Goodyear Assurance Triple Tread tires for two cars. One set was to replace a worn out set of them. You don't even want to get me started on how good they are in the wet, oily pavement at intersections, mud, snow, ice (I understand they have a higher content of pumice). They really show their strength when taking on/off-ramps in the rain, not that I try to push the envelope. I have a set of studded snow tires that I don't need to use anymore.

Good to know, first hand knowledge, thanks.

The Pumice helps with making the tire longer life (even with a soft compound), quieter and gives a better grip WITH less fuel consumption. The best of all worlds.....

If the tires (or tyres) have developed a wear pattern, moving the tires to another location may temporally cause additional noise till the wear rubs the new high spots off.

This process can be speed-ed up by spinning the rear tires rapidly. Using large amounts of throttle mixed with water on the ground, and perhaps tight turns will help.

It may not cure the tire noise, but I think you will feel better after an hour of this.

Here's what the MFG says about tire rotation. Move the front tires to the back, same side. Move left rear to right front, right rear to left front. By following this pattern each tire will turn in opposite direction during about 1/2 it's life. They must have solved the problem of belt separation, I hope.

The other issue is that both my repair shop and my tire dealer rotate my tires, and I haven't asked them what method they use.

Please look at one of my recent posts here with pictures, some tires may not be used in the opposite direction, ever.

They may only be changed front to back on the same side....unidirectional tires....there is a picture of the main 3 tyre types and a link to a good tire web site where all is better explained than here....

Post #39.

Yes, Thanks for the visual. My tires are unidirectional, and can run in either direction, according to MFG.

Nothing fancy.

"Unidirectional" means that they can only run in one direction.....not either.......!!!

Be very, very careful, you may be misunderstanding what the MFG is saying, a serious and dangerous mistake!

I think I heard the OP thinking bi-directional

I can never parallel park in the rain again.

I can never back out of a parking space in the rain again.

I will never get to use reverse again.

"Unidirectional" means that they can only run in one direction.

No! No! NO!

It's "uni-"as in universal. Not "uni-" as in only one way: one direction!

You can still go right, left, forward and back, but you can't go up or down.

" Sorry officer, I can't pull over, I have unidirectional tires."

The 'uni- in universe or universal still means one-. All the dictionaries I checked agreed that the origin of the term means something akin to one turn. Its interesting how words change their connotations over time and space...

over time is with leverage and space is storage

" Its interesting how words change their connotations over time and space..."

And to suit the speakers needs?

I seem to be semantically challenged.

Anyway, I knew what I meant.

LOL

The MFG has a very descriptive diagram depicting the rotation scheme.

I just can't seem to describe it in words.

Rotation Tips

Regular rotation helps extend the life of your tires, saving time and money in the long run. For rotation, each tire and wheel is removed from your vehicle and moved to a different position. This ensures that all of the tires wear evenly and last longer. If no period is specified in your vehicle owners manual, tires should be rotated every 6,000 to 8,000 miles. If you have a full-size spare, it should be included in the rotation process.

You made the statement:-

If you have a full-size spare, it should be included in the rotation process.

I tend to disagree, because on the driven wheels, this could lead to constant EXTRA movement of the middle of the differential. I personally tend to always use tires of the same wear on the same axle....

I then buy ONE new tyre of the same type/manufacturer, combine it with the full size spare and put them either on the front or rear axle together....

Its only a small point........a diff should handle it, but I never try it out.....

When I need to use the spare otherwise, I always put it on one of the non driven wheels if at all possible if it is at a vastly different wear point/life.

The statement is copied directly from their website. I should have put it in quotes.

I don't believe that a minor difference in tire diameter will adversely affect the diff.

But, I salute your attention to detail!

Be aware that a tire that has spent three to four years in the trunk (depending on the amount of driving you do), has aged. In the valve industry that I am most familiar with, a date code was stamped on all diaphragms in stock and if any exceeded the date code, it was purged. Granted, this had a lot to do with liability issues but it does demonstrate a concern about rubber deterioration over time, mostly due to ozone.

Installing an old tire along with a new tire, if the identical model is still available after four years, means that when the new tire wears out after four years, the old tire is now eight years old. Could be an issue.

Yes, any differentiation of tire diameters mounted to an axle, weather an open ended (non-limited slip) or limited slip, will cause the left and right sides to rotate at different speeds. Even if the difference is small (less that a half inch of tire circumference), the bushings of the spider gears and the clutch plates themselves (limited-slip) will experience additional wear. It might be the difference of the differential first showing problems at 130,000 miles as opposed to 200,000 miles. The second or third owner would generally be the one holding the bag, MEANING ME. PLEASE DON'T DO IT!!!

I have found, through personal experience and testing, that identical model tires of even the small wear variations as above, mounted on the front cause the car to not maintain a straight course without driver input. I have switched tires from one side to the other and have caused the car to pull in the opposite direction. It is not excessive but can be noticed on straight level roads with no curves.This most certainly occurs with mismatched models, even within the same brand, of the same size but with a noticeably different tread pattern, probably due the coefficient of friction variances. It might seem that this is just an annoyance, but consider that any additional load on steering components induces additional wear both on the steering components AND the tires through scrubbing. Scrubbing can be considered a form of slipping, hence a certain amount of loss of traction. In wet conditions, the last thing you want to be inherent is slipping. That's why I prefer front to back, back to front and keep a very good cheap new spare for ONLY getting to your destination.

I do too many miles to worry much about that!!

Tyres last a long time by me, miles wise, but if its 18 months that's a max....

Also what happens with the next owner is not my problem either......I sell a car as it is.....I certainly will not do that to save him anything, nobody does that surely? If he knows anything about tires, most don't.....that is "caveat emptor" to my mind.....

I have never had any of the problems described with regard to the age of tires as they simply do not last that long generally speaking, 50,000 miles seems to be a max on my present car, though I have had tires last far longer on other (lighter) cars......sometimes I have achieved over 100,000 miles.....without going less than 3mm of profile....my personal minimum. The law here requires at least 1.6mm.

My present car is probably a bit too heavy for the tire size for getting extreme mileages....also, I am not a slow driver......Germany still does not have blanket speed limits! Eat your heart out Guys!!

"My tires are unidirectional, and can run in either direction".

Either the first or the second half of that statement MUST be wrong! It's an oxymoron.

Thanks for the support....

OK, OK! Omni directional, Bi-directional, goes both ways, not rotation sensitive, just a plain old tire.

I have time this weekend to switch the tires around, so, I'll have news next week.

So I guess at this point that the only question remaining is, will you be able to tolerate the noise from all corners while you run the tires until the air shows through?

Or break down and get the radio fixed.

Has a great sound system. 6 CD Player. Cold air, you need cold air in the desert. But, I'm one of those who listens to his vehicle.

I'm going to jack the thing up on Sat and solve my mystery. I have a plan.

Stay tuned!

It'll be awhile.

New tire tread depth:.350 in. my tread depth: .215 in.

Well, I switched two tires around this morning and still don't know where the noise is coming from.

Tomorrow, I'll put it on jack stands and run it to see if I can still hear the noise with the tires off the ground.

LL

We experienced the same scenario after getting new tires once. After the tire dealer completed numerous tests over a three month time frame. The problem was determined to be a wheel bearing, it wasn't considered seriously to begin with because of the low mileage on the pick up.

I put the truck on jack stands and ran it. No noise. I'll just turn the stereo up until I get new tires.

LL

Assuming your truck is not 4 wheel drive, or was not in 4WD when you tested it, you've only eliminated half of the possible bad bearings!

On our truck is was a front wheel bearing...give it a while and the ugly head will rise

Thanks for all the input. But, I think it's just tire noise. It sounds the same if I'm accelerating or decelerating.

LL

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