Good Article About Lithium

I don't know enough about lithium to comment on that, but your point is well taken. Many so-called solutions to our energy problems involve substituting one scarce item for another. Thanks.

Hi,

this is a great article! Good posting!

What we should learn (if the bad power factor and limited life and high cost and high weight of batteries is included):

the "electric" car is useless, nonsense, destroying necessary other ways of effective fuel use - but -

easing political people: we do a lot for our climate!

They have no idea what they are doing:

waste our tax money - needed in health and education and science and technology,

waste natural resources (we will need some Li but not this much and we should impose some value on no longer useful batteries so recycling will be near 100%),

destroy some marvels of nature: they can do leaching as in China and Chile at some places for Li and also for uranium mining.

They won't change the climate: it is mostly by water vapor but they believe in carbon-dioxide.

So we live in a ridiculous time: tell them how to act and what to avoid.

RHABE

sounds like the lithium is washed down from the mountains surrounding the playa, and then dissolved in the brine under the salt bed. couldnt they mine the mountains that contain the lithium compound, what ever that is, before it gets to the ecologically political "hot bed". there has to be greater concentrations in the mountains. probabaly more that the stated amount that is disolved in the dry lake. seems that underground mining would be less unfriendly to the "greenies".

I just don't understand why everyone is pushing so hard for battery powered vehicles. I've said this before, why aren't we looking into stirling engines? It seems a stirling electric hybrid would be a good solution...Maybe I'm overlooking something. Regardless, an extrnal combustion engine of any sort could make use of solid fuel (fuel pellets from any sort of agri waste, waste paper...etc)...If I could just get my hands on some of that bail out money...

I read a post a few days ago about rebuilding batteries for battery powered tools. Anyone who uses a cordless drill understands the downfall of batteries. Do we really want a car that may suddenly leave us stranded because something went wrong with the charging system?...I know, they have figured out way around this... I'll stop rambling now...

Seems Stirling engines have the same appeal as a watch pocket and though each is better than the contemporary method so it prevails.

Yes...Yes indeed...

While the article was interesting, it seemed to assume that this area is one of the few available sources and that Li is scarce.

Sea water contains 194 g/l. This alone is an almost inexhaustible source. (The Li is also fairly easily extracted as LiCl).

Most rocks contain some Li, but it would not be easy to extract.

The mountains above the Salar De Uyuni probably have rock Li in reasonably dilute form. Leaching into the lake concentrates it and makes it a good source of the material.

The reason not much is currently produced is that there has not been the demand.

If it is needed in huge amounts for batteries, the raw material is readily available.

Purification of Lithium salts from salt deposits is fairly straight forward so that step is easy, but the chemical bonds of Li with all other materials are very strong.

Considerable energy is needed to extract it from the purified ore, but it is a reasonably simple electrolytic process, except it probably needs to be done in a molten salt bath, most likely with mercury as one of the electrodes. The process will be similar to that currently used to extract sodium metal.

Thanks,

A very sobering article indeed.

This is "another" call for new,outside the box,outside current thinking,outside conventional engineering, principles.We need another,Ford,Edison,Tesla.We need sciences that as of now do not exist.

This is in a way "a good thing",,, necessity and strife are great motivators.

Joe in Texas

http://escholarship.org/editions/view?docId=kt167nb66r&chunk.id=d3_4_ch06&toc.id=ch06&brand=eschol

Hi Sceptic,

your data of Li in seawater seems to be a factor of 10⁶ too high.

See above book on seawater. There is stated 0.1 µg/L but this varies from 0.1 to 0.2 µg/L

Nevertheless your statement about possible mining may come true, especially if combined with magnesium extraction from seawater, a routine process. (Norsk Hydro Company).

RHABE

RHABE

Hi RHABE

I'm sure you are right about the amount being too high. I took it out of an article on the net and was a little suspicious of it as I didn't remember Li being a major component of seawater.

As I was in a hurry, (as usual), I put in the value I had rather than checking further (as I should have done).

As you pointed out, even at the lower level, there is still plenty of Li for future needs.

Apparently the solublility of LiCl is very temperature dependent, making it comparatively easy to concentrate it from among the various salts.

Hi Sceptic,

maybe you have an explanation about Li and other minerals that are in low concentration in seawater: at school times I learnt that Se, B, Cr, and others are poisonous and to be avoided. Later gradually all these and more have got scientific attention and we know much about necessary trace elements.

But for Lithium, Rubidium and Gallium I do not know an essential function in our body.

May be there is one - unknown.

With Ga this may be inflammation control (non bacterial) and direct infection control and may be cancer suppression. All three actions are known since more than 20 years. But I did not find the accumulation factors in our body if our food would be of natural sea origin.

It is known from cancer scintigraphy that Ga is enriched in cancer tissue (some, all?).

To be useful in cancer treatment (late stage - other treatments failed) there has to be considerable high dosage of 2g/d which is not possible because too toxic (kidneys) with ionic Ga but is possible with organo-Ga.

If also working at much lower - but permanent - concentration this natural Ga content would have given our sea or lake dwelling ancestors an advantage over neighbours.

Same may be existing today but confused by food habits.

Similar actions may exist from Li, Ru and other elements in sea-water.???

Any thoughts or information about this?

RHABE

Hi RHABE

Don't know about body function of Rb, except as an alkali it may displace K or Na. Perhaps it may help regulate K/Na balance, but that is only a guess.

Li has been used as treatment for mental disorders, especially schizophrenia. Actually found when they used it as a placebo while they tested some new fancy drug.

The placebo was about 75% effective while the drug was less than the expected 40% placebo effect! This started them looking at Li and LiCO3 is now used for this purpose.

Too much is toxic.

Usually no trouble getting enough in the diet as, being a common constituent of rocks, plants normally have enough.

I don't know the intake needed, except it is small.

I don't know why schizophrenics need so much more than normal.

Thanks for the info re Ga and cancer. Quite interesting.