Previous in Forum: difference between SA106 GR B and SA 516 GR 70N   Next in Forum: Scale Drawings for a 1:7.5 DH 98 Mosquito
Close
Close
Close
8 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster

Problem Process Cooling Water System

06/15/2009 4:45 PM

I am looking for information on how to calculate head loss on a process cooling water system.

This system has 1 supply pump with 4 HX feed off the supply main. All HX return to a common return which passes thru a heat recovery HX and then flows to 2 cooling towers and drains to a common sump tank.

The system is under performing and i question it's design. ie pump undersized or piping undersized.

I am looking for answer on system head loss calculation. On an open system is total head loss everthing from pumps back to tower?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jeffrey Bull

Jbb1944@sbcglobal.net

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 767
Good Answers: 58
#1

Re: Problem Process Cooling Water System

06/15/2009 8:44 PM

Jeff,

Try modelling your system using the free downloadable software from here http://www.pumpsystemsmatter.org/ Go to Downloadable Tools on the left of the page and download the PSIM Software.

Sugggest that you sign up so that you can follow the thread more easily.

__________________
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (A.E.)
Reply
2
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#2

Re: Problem Process Cooling Water System

06/16/2009 3:45 AM

Start by installing an accurate pressure gauge either side of the pump, and a clamp-on ultrasonic flowmeter to the pipework, and find out where the pump is performing on its published characteristic curve.

Several possibilities:

  • The pump impeller is knackered.
  • The heat exchangers or the pipes leading to them are partially blocked.
  • The system has been added to willy-nilly over the years and the pump can't keep up with the flow requirements.

The instruments should give a better picture of what is going on and determine where maintenance effort would be best applied.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brecksville, OH
Posts: 1621
Good Answers: 18
#5
In reply to #2

Re: Problem Process Cooling Water System

06/16/2009 10:18 AM

If you have info on the HX, you might want to then do a check of overall heat transfer coefficient (Ud) and compare with expected values.

__________________
"Consensus Science got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?" : Rephrase of Will Rogers Comment
Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Problem Process Cooling Water System

06/17/2009 4:32 AM

It would be far better for the original poster to do that.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 367
Good Answers: 10
#3

Re: Problem Process Cooling Water System

06/16/2009 8:30 AM

Do you have any information on the HXs and the CT pump (datasheets, nameplates, etc)? As PW and others suggest, you need some basic tools to gather some data if you want to do an analysis.

Also, have you ever opened up the suction strainer on the pump?

You should sign up for this board as well, it is a good time.

__________________
Money doesn't talk, it screams in your face.
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#8
In reply to #3

Re: Problem Process Cooling Water System

06/23/2009 4:04 AM

<...Also, have you ever opened up the suction strainer on the pump?...>

Good point.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 519
Good Answers: 11
#4

Re: Problem Process Cooling Water System

06/16/2009 8:41 AM

I agree with PW. For an existing system, the easiest way to find pressure drop is to just add pressure gauges.

The only benefit I can see to calculating here is to create a model of the system in order to predict the effects of future alterations.

If you really want to calculate it (without purchasing a program or finding a free one), use the Bernoulli equation.

The good thing for you is that you are using water which means you can use the Moody Chart and you are looking for pressure drop. I only see 1 branch in your description, so for pressure drop, it's a tedious equation but it's a direct one. Of course I say it's direct assuming you know the flow rate. If not you better be ready to iterate through it.

Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#7
In reply to #4

Re: Problem Process Cooling Water System

06/17/2009 4:35 AM

Yep. It can be done. The calculations are iterative and somewhat tedious. All any software will do is speed the calculation up.

All calculations are based on assumptions. An invalid assumption can throw the whole lot out of the window.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 8 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

agua_doc (1); betomachine (1); cingold (1); PWSlack (4); The Prof (1)

Previous in Forum: difference between SA106 GR B and SA 516 GR 70N   Next in Forum: Scale Drawings for a 1:7.5 DH 98 Mosquito
You might be interested in: Cooling Tunnels, Electronic Cooling Fans

Advertisement