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Anonymous Poster	Car Alternators 09/01/2009 5:52 PM
	Good afternoon Ladies and Gentlemen: I know this topic was brought up a few months ago on this site about "can you get 120v A/C from a car alternator" and all the answers were quite good and very informative. My question is this in stead of using just one alternator to produce 120v from a single phase of the alternator and only using 1/3 of what the alternator can actually do. Why not use let say 10 alternators putting them in series with each other and producing 120v and 7560 watts of power and using the A and C phase of the alternators to keep them more in balance relating to load and bringing this power directly into your home and getting of the grid and if you need more power could you not just put 10 more alternators in series and divide your Electrical panel into 2 seperate panels or even 3 so you could use all 3 phases coming out of the alternators. I do not know if this is sound thinking so this is why I am posting this question for I do not know if a car alternator can handle turning at between 3000 and 3600 rpm for an extended amout of time
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Mikerho Guru Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis) Posts: 4216 Good Answers: 194	#1 Re: Newton 09/01/2009 5:56 PM
	You are going the (extremely) long way round! You could do the same thing by using a gas generator, and you wouldn't have to tie up your car. __________________ "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
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user-deleted-13 Guru Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4513 Good Answers: 88	#2 In reply to #1 Re: Newton 09/01/2009 7:28 PM
	I dunno, maybe he owns a junkyard and has a few hundred alternators on hand. He doesn't actually say how he's motorvating them, however. For my part, I think he should sell the alternators and use the proceeds to buy a good ol' ordinary generator set, but it also sounds to me like he's having fun experimenting with this stuff. More power to him! (bad pun, but what the heck!) We're taking a different approach to generating our own electricity: a solar pond. It consists of a medium-size pond which is lined with a durable black plastic liner to absorb the sunlight. The pond is filled with saturated brine which, along with the liner, absorbs additional sunlight and heats up. At the bottom of the pond is a heat exchanger into which a refrigerant flows (R-22 or similar), where it is vaporized by the heat of the brine. The heated vapor is sent to a so-called Organic Rankine Turbine which, in turn, drives a largish alternator (but not the car kind). Alternators are more efficient, albeit more complicated, than generators. The refrigerant vapor leaves the ORT for a set of condenser coils, where it is cooled back into a liquid, and the process repeats. It is a closed system. We're looking at generating around 100 kW and selling the excess to The Grid to help pay for it all.
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Mikerho Guru Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis) Posts: 4216 Good Answers: 194	#6 In reply to #2 Re: Newton 09/01/2009 10:50 PM
	Hi europium, good to hear from you. We're taking a different approach OK - Who's "we"? I'm just curious. The heated vapor is sent to a so-called Organic Rankine Turbine which, in turn, drives a largish alternator (but not the car kind). Do you mean to say that the ORT's input to make it turn is the expanding freon alone? What is the volume of the freon side of the system? The refrigerant vapor leaves the ORT for a set of condenser coils, where it is cooled back into a liquid Where are the condenser coils? Shaded, but in ambient temp.? If it's what I think it is, this is a great system! You have an initial capital cost, but as long as your maintenance costs are lower than the energy you get, you can really take advantage of solar energy. Mike __________________ "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
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lyn Guru Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 42355 Good Answers: 1693	#3 Re: Newton 09/01/2009 7:34 PM
	I'm with Mikerho. How about this: 7500w Generator $749 How do you propose to drive these alternators, if you build this machine?
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tcmtech Guru Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: South of Minot North Dakota Posts: 8376 Good Answers: 775	#4 Re: Newton 09/01/2009 7:44 PM
	First of theres a few bugs in the system. A standard automotive alternator has 12 - 16 poles and does need to spin at around 3600 RPM or higher for full output. That many poles equates to your output frequency which will be around 360 - 480 Hz. Your home appliances need 60 Hz. Also standard automotive alternators are not isolated from their case internally. They can be but then external power is needed to drive the regulation system. Lastly to get all of them synchronized to put out the right frequency and and the right phasing relationships to one another your going to need a lot of custom machining and drive components. Realistically just go on line and by a belt driven AC generator. They are much cheaper and far mor reliable than what your proposing and built for the aplication you need.
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CraziestOzzy Power-User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Australia, sunny North Queensland Posts: 380 Good Answers: 12	#5 Re: Newton 09/01/2009 9:50 PM
	I understand that you want to power an alternator/s using one of the three phases available. The remaining two phases are to be used to power electricity? If my understanding above is correct, I commend you on your forward "out-of-the-box" thinking. Under LOAD, your alternator/s will consume more power than is being produced. It will be inefficient relative to that of a single phase motor used to power an attached generator. Casting aside prejudices against free-energy and inefficiencies, perhaps you could try using two phases to turn your 'generator" and use the remaining phase to generate single phase AC? Obviously you will need to double the number of alternators to meet your planned outputs without too much loading. This has been done before, but step wearily...as most "creators" get bogged down into the "free-energy" scam and lose their original ideal concept. __________________ CraziestOzzy
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Mikerho Guru Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis) Posts: 4216 Good Answers: 194	#7 Re: Newton 09/01/2009 10:53 PM
	OK - I'll bet 7000 quatloos that "guest" doesn't come back! Challengers? __________________ "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
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CraziestOzzy Power-User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Australia, sunny North Queensland Posts: 380 Good Answers: 12	#8 In reply to #7 Re: Newton 09/02/2009 1:12 AM
	__________________ CraziestOzzy
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user-deleted-13 Guru Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4513 Good Answers: 88	#9 In reply to #7 Re: Newton 09/02/2009 9:32 AM
	I was about to up the ante, but then Kirk told me what a "quatloo" really is: Seems those Gamesters can't pronounce the letter 's.'
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Codemaster Guru Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Stoke-on-Trent, UK Posts: 4496 Good Answers: 137	#10 In reply to #9 Re: Newton 09/02/2009 12:40 PM
	As a general query - how did Newton get into this discussion? __________________ Give masochists a fair crack of the whip
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user-deleted-13 Guru Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4513 Good Answers: 88	#11 In reply to #10 Re: Newton 09/02/2009 1:43 PM
	He forced his way in, of course!
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Mikerho Guru Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis) Posts: 4216 Good Answers: 194	#12 In reply to #9 Re: Newton 09/02/2009 1:46 PM
	Just trying to figure out what mostly-noncorporeal brain-in-jar beings would need them for. They were probably lied to by those good-for-nothing Romulans. __________________ "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
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user-deleted-13 Guru Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4513 Good Answers: 88	#13 In reply to #12 Re: Newton 09/02/2009 2:14 PM
	No, no. Your pic simply shows where the brain valet keeps 'em during the sermon.
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Users who posted comments:

Codemaster (1); CraziestOzzy (2); lyn (1); Mikerho (4); tcmtech (1); user-deleted-13 (4)

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