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Electric Railroads in the U.S.

09/13/2009 8:59 PM

There were a few railroads in the U.S. that switched from steam to electric. Some eventually abandoned electric and went to diesel power. Those that switched to electric and still have partial electric operations are located in the north-east and operated by Amtrac (formerly, NYC, PRR and NYNH&H). Their routes extend from Boston to Washington, D.C. There is another railroad worth noting. It is not considered a railroad by some, but never-the-less it ran on tracks had a signaling system, carried passengers and was propelled by electric. It was called the Manhattan elevated, or "El" for short. From about 1870 to 1902, it ran above the streets of Manhattan with coaches pulled by small steam engines. The new Interborough Rapid Transit, (IRT) was being built as an underground subway system. The IRT which opened in 1904 used 600 VDC traction motors. In 1902, the El retired their steam engines and fitted their coaches with electric motors. Eventually the El and the Brooklyn Manhattan Transit (BMT) would also become part of the IRT. One of the interesting facts about the El was; if you considered it a railroad, it was one of the largest electric rail networks in the U.S. The Key system and Pacific Electric in California and a few others across the country may have had more trackage than the El, but the El was totally within the city limits of New York.

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#1

Re: Electric Railroads in the U.S.

09/14/2009 3:53 PM

Nice post, Ron. I love this stuff, too.

Have you seen this series about the electric streetcar from CR4 user JLoz? The link I've provided is to just one of 16 parts.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Electric Railroads in the U.S.

09/14/2009 7:20 PM

I've paid close attention to John Loz series.

The Amtrak monopoly on rail is an evil thing.

I once sat next to the Comptroller for Amtrak on a train ride.

"How do you set prices?"

"We charge what the airlines charge on the day, instead of with advance reservation."

If I had my way I'd put a passenger car on every freight train running anywhere.

P.S. This subject is one I have studied intensely. 20 years of study and you do tend to lose a few details. The Long Island Railroad got a grandfather pass on its operations.

The NC railroad hasn't got the guts to do what is right by its citizens, though they at least bought the company out. I've got more than one set of enemies in more than one state of the union.

Amtrak is a travesty.

And from my experience and study, don't for a minute think that conspiracy theories are all wrong, and the realm of nutcases.

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#3

Re: Electric Railroads in the U.S.

09/15/2009 1:00 AM

Most "diesel locomotives" are really electric vehicles. The diesel engine charges the enormous array of lead/acid batteries. (This is what some auto companies call a hybrid). The railways have been using this system for 70 years.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Electric Railroads in the U.S.

09/15/2009 1:56 AM

No not really. Diesel electric yes but not yet hybrid. The energy recovered during retard is burnt off in resistors. If lead acid batteries were used there would need to be several wagons with the batteries as part of the train. Even electric locos burn off energy in resistor grids.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Electric Railroads in the U.S.

09/15/2009 2:16 AM

Last time I was in the guts of a Locomotive I saw no batteries at all.

Maybe I missed something.

I was under the distinct impression that the diesel ran the electric motor.

I was under the impression that the thing was a train, not a submarine.

Diesel Electric Locomotives run a generator that runs the electric motor.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Electric Railroads in the U.S.

09/15/2009 3:05 AM

We use diesel electric a lot in Pakistan. The engines are of US origin. You are right. Diesel drives the electric generator / motor. It does not run on batteries.

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Electric Railroads in the U.S.

09/15/2009 1:05 PM

And the next step in the development of the US automotive market is a turbine-powered generator running on 130 proof ethanol to make the electricity to run the car (or truck). Prototype should be running early 2010.

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#8
In reply to #5

Re: Electric Railroads in the U.S.

09/15/2009 9:16 AM

Absolutely correct for the major diesel electric locomotive manufactures..

Engine-Generator-Traction Motors

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#17
In reply to #5

Re: Electric Railroads in the U.S.

09/18/2009 1:03 PM

Batteries are not used in locomotives (except for starting), but they were used back in 1902 on narrow and standard gauge locomotives. They were limited to use in factories and light switching at 1 to 4 mph.

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#7

Re: Electric Railroads in the U.S.

09/15/2009 8:53 AM

There is still an electric railroad system in Northern Indiana and Chicago. It is the Chicago, South Shore & South Bend RR (South Shore). It is operated by the Northern Indiana Commuter Transportation District (NICTD) It runs between South Bend, Indiana and Randolph Street in Chicago, with many stops along the way. Gary has a major terminal on the route and lots of people commute to downtown Chicago on this railroad. In Michigan City, Indiana there is an area where the tracks run right down a street and the train will even stop for traffic lights. Trip time between the end terminals is a little over two hours. Cost for one way is about $10 per person, but you can buy multi trip passes that reduce the cost for daily commutes. That is a lot cheaper than paying for a parking spot in downtown Chicago and no traffic hassles.

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#10

Re: Electric Railroads in the U.S.

09/15/2009 1:21 PM

I read an article about a year ago that described a (new) high efficiency yard switch engine that used an engine that ran at peak power when needed to charge the batteries that powered it. Its a true hybrid that does use regenerative braking. The engine shut off when the batteries were at full charge. The article talked like it was such a tremendous new concept!

By the way, a railroad engineer told me when locomotives burn, the usual cause is the braking resistors (at least in our hills). Look for the green fire, he said.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Electric Railroads in the U.S.

09/15/2009 1:30 PM

I can imagine this in switch cars, but have never heard of this in a true long haul, full size locomitive... Who built (or builds) these loco's loaded with batteries???

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Electric Railroads in the U.S.

09/16/2009 1:28 AM

The latest I heard (right here on CR4) about hybrid locos is that GE are working on it. One of the GE engineers from Erie was interviewed by one of the CR4 team.

ABB were reported as working on storage systems for electric trains about 8 or 9 years ago but I've seen nothing more. The were not using batteries, see below.

GE and Komatsu are reported as working on Hybrid dump truck designs (dump trucks use loco technology).

Komatsu have released a hybrid excavator.

Caterpillar have come on board with electric drives in the 793 and 795 and are working on the 797 and also have an electric drive D7E dozer and have talked about hybrids in press releases.

Nothing around from GE or EMD etc regarding production ready mainline locos. There are a few problems to solve mostly in the rate of recharge considering that the retard power is always at least twice that of the propel power. For instance a common 4000hp loco will retard at at least 8000hp. That is a lot of power to shove into batteries, lead acid will simply not do the job.

Modern locos, dumptrucks and the D7E all use AC traction and have a minimum DC link voltage of about 600 volts rising to 1600 volts in retard. To charge batteries will need some regulating device such as a huge buck converter to regulate the voltage to the storage devices. That in itself is no real problem as choppers already regulate retard effort to varying degrees. Batteries that will accept around 7000 amps and more are the sticking point.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Electric Railroads in the U.S.

09/16/2009 6:38 AM

Interesting Emjay! Thanks

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#14
In reply to #12

Re: Electric Railroads in the U.S.

09/16/2009 1:40 PM

Emjay

Would you happen to know the website of a manufacturer / supplier of one foot / two feet railroad, engine and coaches for a children park? Preferably diesel / rechargeable batteries?

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Electric Railroads in the U.S.

09/16/2009 4:20 PM

There is plenty of stuff about, I would recommend the Australian Model Engineering website as a good place to start your research. There are similar organisations and magazines in many countries especially the UK and US which are chock full of advertisements and contacts.

AME let you see a fair bit on their site.

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Electric Railroads in the U.S.

09/18/2009 3:49 AM

Thanks Emjay!

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