Hoist Using Rotating Spool With Rope Wrapped Around

On a drilling rig referred to it as the cat head.

How about a drum winch. It only pulls when you tug on the rope. Greenlee makes a nice one.

I think the CAT HEAD threw you for a loop!

I think the CAT HEAD scarred him.

In wire drawing here in Ohio we called it a bull block. we had them in front of lewis straighten and cut machines to make small diameter cut length bars.

But we knew the real term was capstan.

As someone else posted, the ex navy guys called it a windlass.

milo

Milo,

Thanks. I knew something was wrong with the way' "windless" looked in my post.

Windlass is the proper term.

Lyn

On a boat it would be a windless.

google "capstan rope winch"

Hello All, Thanks for the information. I now what a cat head and a capstan is. I have eaten a few cat head biscuits in my time but that is another story. I did some looking around for a gasoline or diesel powered capstan. Does anyone know of someone in the US who carries such a thing. A 10 to 15 HP range would be good. My plan is to use the capstan to lift a 200 to 300 pound hammer on a small cable tool in in Africa. A cable tool rig is used for drilling water wells. If I cannot find such a complete unit I will have to design my own with belts and pulleys or a combo of belt drive and a transmission. Any ideas or help would be welcome.

Rustyh2o

How high must the 'hammer' be lifted?

milo

rope runs about 16' up to a pulley then down to the hammer

Hmmm. Trying to figure mass needed to be satble vs your need for portability. The weights involved tell me cartage by jeep. So natural question is why not use jeep bumper mount winch. 16 feet is not long time at winch speeds. Need limit switches to prevent over lift.

milo

If I'm looking at this right.

A 10-15 HP diesel engine connect to hydraulic pump/motor, 13" etc. automotive wheel/sheave to wrap wire rope, with sensor to reverse direction.

For some info on hydraulic power packs and marine hauling systens check out www.skye.uk.com/donaldmacleod.

It is called Piling Machine which is used for drilling holes in earth for casting RCC Columns for high rise building. Are you refering to this machine?. It is available everwhere. You have to contact construction machine dealers.

Suresh.Sharma.

Hi Rusty,

Sounds like you are into another worthwhile project.

This is a dangerous project.

when the rope is let loose the end will fly. Worse than that is if you get a riding turn, which means that the rope runs over itself. this will not allow anyone to release it and it will pull the weight to the top of the derrick either pulling the derrick over, snapping the rope or stalling the engine.

Far better is to have a captive winch with a clutching system to the engine driven shaft, preferably with an over-tension release.

Play safe

Chas

here is some more info. Gasoline or diesel connected to jackshaft pulley then to the spool where the rope wraps around. rope runs up to the sheave at the top of the mast, about 12 to 16 feep. tighten the rope to raise the 200 # hammer then slack the rope to allow the hammer to fall about two feet. Repeat every few seconds.

I have done this with a 100 # hammer and eight africans tugging on a rope. We used small trees as a tripod to hold the sheave. This works but you need many people as they tire quickly. We had three teams of young strong men. Paid them a dollar a day and fed them lunch. It will work.

I have seen more elaborate units using planetary gears coupled to the engine. This had a clutch. This kind of unit might be the answer but I think these gear systems may be kind of pricey. I have a design for a rig that can be towed to the site. While towing it slightly looks like a boat trailer with the engine at the back. when on site the trailer tongue is raised and spread at the bottom to add support. Looks a little like an A-frame ladder. The feet are anchored down and drilling begins. The hole is a little sloppy at first near the ground surface but it evens out after you get down a few feet. A heavier hammer will break up the earth and small stones faster. I imagine the ones on the commercial drill rigs weigh in at probably 1000# or maybe more. I also have made the bailers to bail out the mud as it is produced.

thanks, rustyh2o

I was thinking along the lines of an engine with either belts or gear reduction driving a large disc. The disc to have a hole drilled at a point about two inches inside the diametrical edge. Use a pin and attach a push rod guided through a pocket enabling the push rod to be attached to the rope creating a push pull action; raising then dropping the hammer.

My sincere admiration for you to try to tackle the water problems.

I do not think you need that high a powered engine. I believe that a 5 to 8 hp engine will do the job, if you use a pulley system, and a weighty flywheel. The flywheel must be anchored to the engine. If you get a cast iron double, or triple pulley set attached to the output shaft of the engine, it should work. Use double or triple fan belts to run to the spool, or drum. Some of the strap winches used to pull a boat onto a trailer have a band that acts as a brake when pulled tight. This would work as a temporary brake, while a pin or rod is inserted into a hole in the pulley to hold it stationary.

Now here is where the craftsmanship comes in. If you use a set of belts that is too long to drive the drive the spool, or drum, and use a third idler pulley attached to a pivoting lever to tighten the belts, it should wind the rope on the drum only when you push the lever, and allow the drum to unwind and drop the weight. If you are really crafty, you can manage to allow the one lever to tighten the belts in one direction, and apply the drum brake when pushed in the other direction. Just remember to use a spring on the lever to keep the fan belts loose when the lever is released. Another option would be to make the lever lift the idler pulley to tighten. That way the weight of the idler pulley would cause the drive to release when let go of.

To allow the engine to start easier with the heavy flywheel, use a longer rope. It will allow you to get that mass moving easier. I wish you the best of luck in this endeavor.

Hello, I found this mechanical disk brake on the net. I think I can use it along with the flywheel. The vendor has several different sizes available for different diameter and thickness disks. Now to spec out every thing and make sure I have enough motor shaft for a double pulley and flywheel.

More info, Actually with the 12'-16' mast you are only using 4' - 6' of the height for working. Maybe a little more when bailing. You use your eyes as a limit switch and your hands as a clutch. kiss is what I am looking to acheive along with cost effectiveness. This rig would be used in areas where there are hand dug wells as it does not go through rock well. The same for other small rotary rigs such as the LS 100.

well after thinking a little more about a clutch system how about a double pulley coming off of the engine to a large double pulley to reduce rpm. Maybe a clutch could be fashioned after what you see on many garden tillers where the drive and power are transfered form the engine with an idler to apply pressure to the slipping belts. in this ap the lever is squeezed and the idler applys pressure to the drive belt tightening them so they grab onto the small pulley on the engine shaft. Using a double pulley would possibly help to transfer more power without stressing one belt.

all comments are welcome thanks, rustyh20

Hi Rustyh2o

That sounds much better. Remember a guard for the belts.

That arrangement, set so that someone has to have their hand on the tension lever, effectivly making it a "dead mans handle".

Good luck with this good work. If we can be of any more assistance i am sure everyone here will be more that happy to give an input.

You have given me an idea for a mod to my tractor.

regards

Chas

Dead mans handle sounds like the stuff. Use a spring or other to keep the idler off of the belts until pull is needed.

I think I have a basic design for the hoist. I need to work on a simple brake for the spool to hold the load in place if need be. I wouldnt want everything free wheeling into the borehole if something wierd might happen

there is a device used in the tree service industry that you strap to a tree trunk, run a rope through it and use a hand crank or electric drill to pull up the rope. we use it to lift large limbs upward off houses and such. It is called a grcs,good rigging control system. and they cost about 2500us. Can be purchased through vermeer or other large tree care catalogs. you can raise 1000 lbs or so, then release it in a hurry without things tangling up. this device is modified slightly from its regular use pulling ropes on a sailboat.

I have a machine that sounds like what you described to pull pipe sections down through the pipe rack after welding them together. We always called it a "walkie-dog" but I am sure there is a proper name for it. It works better than mounting an air tugger or similar winch at one end of a pipe rack to pull the sections because it was light weight and could be moved very easily to align with which ever pipe you needed to pull on. I think electricians also use a similar hoist/winch to pull large cables in cable trays.

Weld 2 jeep rims together, drive out to the site, take off 1 rear tire, put on the double rim. Start the jeep in 1st gear. You now have a winch.

We drove a well this way in the 1960's

Check with auto parts houses and find a dual wheel conversion kit that has a spindle that mounts on inner wheel and allows another wheel to be bolted to the spindle. Use a wheel without the tire on it and you have a capsan that is out far enough to clear the fender. Put on the emergency brake and then lock the cable with a vice-grip to keep the wheel on the other side locked in place. Releasing the emergency brake lever with the vice grip in place will allow one wheel to turn while the other is locked. Using the transfer case low range with the front hubs locked out will allow for slower rotation of the capsan. With a little practice you can lift and flip the rope to drop the load.

I had a buddy that fixed his old 2 wheel drive Ford truck into a mud truck that would go through just about any kind of mud and pass up the big souped up 4 wheel drive trucks stuck in the mud. He did this to win a bet that he had made when his son was bragging about his 4 wheel drive truck being far better at negotiating muddy terrain than his old Ford and he did win the bet. I think you may can adapt his technique into what you need. The first thing he did was to mount and extra transmission right behind the one that came with his truck and using a shortened drive shaft and spline adapter he had machined to attach the front of extra trans to the rear of the existing one and A couple of homemade supports to hold it all together.This basically gave him an extra range of super low gearing if he needed it. He would put the extra transmission into what ever gear he wanted before the truck was running and then use the clutch to shift the original transmission while running. Next he welded 2 rims together for each rear wheel but only installed one tire on each side on the inner rims. This gave him a place on either side of the truck to wrap a rope, sling, cable, tree vine or anything else he could find to the outer rim and use it in conjunction with the low gearing of the additional transmission as a winch to pull the truck though the mud if he got stuck. I watched him run this contraption a few times and it worked well but it was one the sorriest looking and poorly built pieces of crap I ever saw. It was second in being the worst ever only to a homemade air boat another buddy constructed using an old 12 ft aluminum boat, 10 HP Tecumseh motor, 6 ft OD exhaust fan blades, a few boards and a pile of re bar he "borrowed" off a bridge construction site. (this is another story documenting people building what they need from what they have when they need it and I might add as cheaply as they can) Although this thing he had built looked like very low grade engineering and even lower grade of construction and materials the thing had a ton of power and he finally pulled the rear end loose and nearly broke the ford in two. I guess if you tried this winch set up you would have to jack the rear wheels up to keep it in one place while you used the winch. Also if you have a PTO or a 4 wheel drive you could use a hydraulic pump/winch or PTO powered winch that could be powered by either the PTO or the front drive shaft. One thing I know for sure is that if you build this double transmission, double rim contraption you wouldn't have to worry about getting stuck in the mud.

Here is a spool for the cable tool shown with no wire rope on the drum. There is a two vee sheave on the right hand side and the lever pointing up is the clutch. The foot pedal is a brake. Anyone have ideas on how the brake might work? Maybe it puts pressure on the side of the spool. Or possibly grips the shaft. What do you think? It looks as if when pressure is applied to the pedal the linkage pushes to the right.

Hello,

On most winches I have used that is similar to this they had a drum on the shaft and set of shoes mounted on a loose strap around the drum. Most had some version of connecting linkage and a return spring that attached the brake mechanism to a manual lever fabricated in a manner so that when you pushed or pulled it past a certain point it would lock the load. I have seen a couple of winches with internal brakes that work like automobile emergency brakes in that they have shoes and a cable to operate.

I was thinking about this subject last night when I remembered the winches I used to build and mount on pulp wood (short wood)trucks. The winches were fabricated using parts from a automobile manual transmission and an axle, housing and chunk cut from the rear end. Most of those old 2-1/2 ton trucks had a PTO to run the winch so a power source was not usually a problem. I have installed these on trucks that did not have a PTO a few times and used either the truck engine or a separate stand alone engine to run hydraulic unit for power.The hydraulic version takes more time and money to fabricate the extra parts needed. It may be better if you used a separate gas engine and a hydraulic unit to power your winch. Another option that may be less complicated to do is a generator and an AC powered winch. I have a couple of small hoists that use 120 AC current over separate work stations in my shop and they are good for about 1/2 ton and cost less than 250.00