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Cutting pipe for a good fit

11/24/2009 5:34 PM

I have a project coming up that entails fabricating several steel support frames (or dolphins as they are called), 20' H x 26' L x 18' W, for a marine terminal. The structures will consist of 4 vertical 36" pipes (20') tied together with beam and braced diagonally with 18" pipe. When completed, these structures are installed (slid over) 30" piles and secured and mortared.

Having priced the specified pipe out and discovered how expensive it now is, I do not have a margin in the purchase of it to allow for errors in the cutting and fitting, and obviously a good fit will require fewer weld passes. It is the 18" pipe that will be butted at several different (and odd) angles to the 36".

My question is: do any of you out there know of a method of layout that will allow me to take the 3D cut (abutting the 18" radius of the 36" pipe at different angles) and project that to 2D so I can plot it out at a 1:1 scale whence the fitters can wrap the pipe and mark it accurately.

I am self taught in AutoCAD and have never had the time to delve into the 3D arena, though I imagine I could do it that way if I knew how, but then, I wouldn't be asking now, would I.

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#1

Re: Cutting pipe for a good fit

11/24/2009 10:22 PM

Pretty easy to do, but a mother bear to describe without pictures. If you email me, tornado[at]kpunet[dot]net, I'll do up a quick AutoCad example with a description of how to do the same for any angle you need. (The old AC-Lite program on this computer does not export easily to .jpeg.)

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#2

Re: Cutting pipe for a good fit

11/26/2009 12:45 AM

This is a piece of cake in any respectable 3D software. AutoCad's loss of market share reflects their earlier failure to take the 3D environment seriously. However, having said that, you need not buy an expensive 3D package to do this.In fact there is one in particular that ss free and extremely good Alibre.

I had to do a elliptical cutout in the secondary tube of a telescope called a Schiefspiegler. It had to be precise because the light folded back on itself and the cut had to be accurate.

I had the same issue designing a tubed engine mount welded up of clusters and trusses made of chromoly tubing

In both cases I modeled the parts and the cuts in Solidworks using its sheet metal module. When done I "unfolded" the pipe with the cut, plotted it and then wrapped the plot around the pipe after spraying adhesive. Then it was merely a case of following the line with a cutter. The pipes fitted perfectly and all the angles were spot on.

Alibre is highly intuitive and not difficult to learn

L.J.

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Cutting pipe for a good fit

11/26/2009 4:45 AM

I agree with Laughing Jaguar. I've done this using Autodesk Inventor.

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#3

Re: Cutting pipe for a good fit

11/26/2009 3:03 AM

Not sure if this helps, in turbocad: Modify; Unfold face; this is just a 36" "hole" through an 18" tube. I appreciate that getting this information onto the pipe itself is difficult:-

Make a template out of paper I suppose.

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#5

Re: Cutting pipe for a good fit

11/26/2009 9:42 AM

I have a program i wrote years ago that runs in autocad and use it millions of times a year. if you like email me the intersecting angles and wall thickness of the 18" or a sketch of the structure and i can send you a pdf file you can print out

craigsat@yahoo.com

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#6

Re: Cutting pipe for a good fit

11/26/2009 11:11 AM

I dont know about CAD but if you gave this job to a good tradesman he would draw it up full size on a big piece of cardboard or paper or even the floor with the divisions from end sections marked out on the side views. He would make the wrap around from the distances shown on the side views. Cheers, Rex Dev.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Cutting pipe for a good fit

11/27/2009 10:25 AM

". . . . . . if you gave this job to a good tradesman he would draw it up full size on a big piece of cardboard or paper or even the floor. . . ."

Rex, if Max Bachowski were still alive, he'd be grinning from ear to ear!

Back in the 60's when sports ar racing was not as regulated, Max did just what you suggested. He drew chalk marks on the floor and, using a gas torch, welded up the frame for what was to considered the ugliest sports car ever to turn a wheel in SCCA sanctioned racing. He painted it yellow and soon the nickname "Old Yaller" stuck.

Powered by what was essentially a junked Buick V8 (really!) he consistently ate the Ferrari's, Aston Martins and other exotic European cars for lunch! That of course drove the pipe sucking Tweedy types with their expensive leather elbowed jackets, crazy! The hallowed grounds of the Beverly Hills sports car enthusiasts had been soiled by the Dirty T Shirt crowd!

The only problem with your suggestion, is that the dedicated, skilled tradesman who once populated this nation have died or retired or soon will be. To make matters worse, there no longer are as many apprenticeship programs to replace them.

Instead we have complex CNC environments that do a great job but now sit idle because no one can afford them.

BTW, if I were doing this job, I'd coat the insides of all the pipes with linseed oil like was done in the days of tube framed fuselages. Prevents rust.

L.J.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Cutting pipe for a good fit

11/27/2009 11:00 AM

....the dedicated, skilled tradesman who once populated this nation have died or retired or soon will be. To make matters worse, there no longer are as many apprenticeship programs to replace them.

Couldn't have said it any better myself. I am in the commercial marine industry; small ship and barge repair. Ship-fitters are no longer ship-fitters, they are assemblers. I am lucky to have a few good men of the old school which I luckily experienced but I can't bog them down with everything.

I feel gifted to have had a wonderful mentor, some 35 or so years ago, who gave me the foundation of my career. I try to instill that same enthusiasm to younger fellows but find that they are just not engaged in their livelihood and are more than likely content to just get along rather than excel. Thankfully, there are a few I have gotten through to.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Cutting pipe for a good fit

11/27/2009 11:26 AM

"Couldn't have said it any better myself."

This country is held hostage by a serious, dangerous disease that is eroding 250 years worth of infrastructure and destroying the future for our children. It rewards laziness, corrupts creative ambition and has people looking towards government for salvation.

The skills being discussed here can only be born in an environment that rewards excellence and pride in one's self.

What pains me deeply is that the freedom to excel or to throw it all away was purchased with the lives of patriots ever since Bunker Hill.

L. J.

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Cutting pipe for a good fit

11/29/2009 10:02 PM

"I try to instill that same enthusiasm to younger fellows but find that they are just not engaged in their livelihood and are more than likely content to just get along rather than excel. Thankfully, there are a few I have gotten through to."

I have to agree with the above quote, unfortunately in the trade I am in the fastest workers often can do the job cheapest. Those of us who like to do the job RIGHT because that's the best way, often will take a bit longer and therefore will not be rewarded for the effort. Money usually trumps craftsmanship.

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#7

Re: Cutting pipe for a good fit

11/27/2009 9:16 AM

Thank you all very much for the excellent feedback. I now have salient solutions to my quest.

This is what CR4 is all about!

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#12

Re: Cutting pipe for a good fit

11/30/2009 12:08 PM

You can handle this If your familar with trig & sin funtions, you can graph out a sin wave.(a circle that is cut on one side then pulled open- thus sine wave) You then apply it to your diameter [in this case time changes to distance,(diameter)] pipe. You can do layout and mock up out of carboard/heavy paper for end that is to fit the pipe & see if it fits. When you have angles the circle plane now becomes an elliptic instead of a circle. Then the real crazy calc's come into play. As the angle of plane changes so does the sin and the distance(diameter of elliptic). A ratio is applied for the gain of the angle(which at the moment I can't remember) but you should be able to figuire out once you played with this & see what's going on.

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