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One Engine VTOL Aircraft Design

11/26/2009 9:40 PM

I have designed a VTOL aircraft. Looking for Solid Works Guru to create a finished design. The craft has one turbine engine and no exterior moving parts. Anyone who thinks they can contribute to this team effot please reply.

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#1

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/28/2009 12:47 AM

If you have said that you completed the design, what do you expecte others to do? Make it work?

Stan He he he he hihihi hahaha...haha hiha

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#5
In reply to #1

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/28/2009 11:14 AM

It takes a team effort to make a project succeed. There is not one person smart enough to accomplish this task alone. It will take a solidworks cad drawing, then rapid prototype machine to build design. There is more than you can imagine what it takes to make an idea a reallity.

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#2

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/28/2009 1:32 AM

Tom,

What do you want done? What's it look like? Where? How?

Should contact chrisg288 for drawings, among others, of course.

You going for a patent?

Cheers,

Stu.

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#6
In reply to #2

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/28/2009 11:43 AM

I want to build the badest aeronautical flying craft since the conception of flight. The shape would be doomed saucer shape. CAD solidworks drawing then rapid prototype machine to make parts. Toy size version would be built first to work out any problems. This will keep production cost down to a minimum. Funding is always a issue when developing new product ideas. Solidwork drawings will be already made for life size version. Working with partners as a team is the best way to acheive success.

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Anonymous Poster
#33
In reply to #6

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/03/2009 10:03 PM

>>> '...The shape would be doomed saucer' <<<

It is funny how occasionaly a person predicts the most probable outcome without even realizing.

Benbenben

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#34
In reply to #33

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/03/2009 11:22 PM

Thanks for the spell check benbenben. Do you have anything on electric tubo jet engines. Did you come up with the propulsion cofiguration. Here is another hint on description, picture umbrella shape on top of craft design and a upside down umbrella on bottom of craft. With the other descriptions I already gave, this might help to see.

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Anonymous Poster
#43
In reply to #34

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/08/2009 10:08 PM

Oh, you have it all wrong. You obviously spell very well. I'm not criticizing you.

On the contrary, I am commending you for your prescient choice of words.

Benbenben

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#45
In reply to #43

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/08/2009 11:20 PM

Thanks for checking back in. Getting someone to see what you see is not easy. It takes imagination and the ability to write down what you have invisioned, it is a gift. Most people have so many things going on, they don't have time to just sit and think. Our dreams are the future.

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Anonymous Poster
#3

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/28/2009 5:09 AM

hi i would like to help you in anyway can u email me back plans etc my email is randyrainbow@hotmail.com adam rainbow

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#7
In reply to #3

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/28/2009 11:54 AM

What kind of projects have you worked on in the past. i am checking into funding programs do you have any connection with funding programs. The propulsion configuration is the key

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#4

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/28/2009 6:16 AM

i'm aeronautical engineer , my project was uav design (fixed wing with one one engine in front of fueslage ) during the project i was worked on soildworks and unigraphics

i can help you in your project

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#44
In reply to #4

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/08/2009 10:52 PM

Just checking back to see what you think. Were any of the descriptions I gave helpful in seeing propulsion configuration.

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#8

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/28/2009 3:11 PM

Is this a joke? If so - it's not funny at all. you don't design an aircraft by saying "I want to build the badest aeronautical flying craft since the conception of flight". and we all want free lunches for life - i don't think saying so will help.

If u're building up a team to design such a craft please say so. don't say "I have designed a VTOL aircraft" because i'm sure you don't know what does it mean to design such a machine.

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#9

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/28/2009 5:04 PM

Cheesh,Tom,

You haven't designed anything yet, have you?

You should have said that you have conceptualised a form in a dream, and now you think it has merit enough to go ahead and design.

From what's said so far I'm out.

Maybe it'll get better. I'll see.

Cheers anyway,

Stu

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#10

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/28/2009 7:46 PM

There are some basic rules of aerodynamics that will be the final arbiter of your effort.

Often a designer comes up with a plane that will take off in 10 feet, fly 500 miles per hour, use one gallon per hour, carry 4 people and cost $5,000 .

Reality is that if it flies at all, it will be less than half of what was hoped. Do you have the magic key to make this happen? Even at half, your chances of getting FAA Certification completed and into production is less than 1/4 of those that try.

That said, there are some really cool ideas in development right now. The key that I see with all of them is the team behind them.

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#14
In reply to #10

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/29/2009 10:22 AM

Do you have any links for these cool designs in developement. If you could post some links that would be great

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#16
In reply to #14

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/29/2009 11:37 PM

I've not been active in this adventure, but suggest you browse some of these.

www.moller.com He has been at this for a while with STOL

www.avweb.com Good background on the aviation community.

www.minijets.org a few planes, but good info on engines

www.eaa.org The best source for experimental aircraft help and history etc.

Good luck Steve

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/30/2009 10:16 AM

This is great research information. Everyone should check out the video clip www.moller.com Thanks for the great response. If anyone has infomational links please post. Information on engines or other aircraft.

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Anonymous Poster
#11

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/28/2009 9:11 PM

Reminds me of what a newby said about a production line:

Asked how he would improve thruput, he said he could double it.

"How" asked the supervisor.

"Simply double the speed of all your motors." he answered

No problem.

Call your next case.

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/29/2009 1:21 AM

Simple answers are sometimes the best. If you do not seek the answer, the answer will never come. The boss was seeking answer and the employee gave him a simple answer. this simple answer just doubled production and the employees work load.

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Anonymous Poster
#12

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/28/2009 11:48 PM

Hi,

I am a mechanical designer with 30 years experience. Also, I am a Certified SolidWorks Professional, having 10 years experience with that software. My experience includes some aerospace.

I am not registered with this site. Please respond to me directly.

Steve Borg, Acorn Technical Services, Oak, NE

steve@acorntechnical.com

402-364-2560

Please note that I will be out of town for a few days. Go ahead and reply by e-mail, and I will respond ASAP.

SEB

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#15

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/29/2009 9:10 PM

Hi,

I recently graduated (MSc) in Aeronautical Engineering, I would like to have some cool project to be involved as "free-time/hobby".

If I could help in any manner just send me an e-mail

pirex8125 [hat] gmail.com

Best regards

PireX

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#18

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/30/2009 10:37 AM

Hey, Tom. Does this look familiar?

Wow. Perhaps Boeing would be interested... but that is probably a pretty big piece to chew at this stage. Perhaps one of the Rutan Industries would be interested: http://www.scaled.com/ is the website for experimental projects. Mojave, CA, but the internet has certainly scaled the world down.

Did this previously provided contact not produce results? Did you try?

You say "Working with partners as a team is the best way to acheive success.". Is not a team with a great track record desired? I believe the Rutan companies have a demonstrable history with experimental craft, as well as a willingness to investigate new concepts.

Or, in truth, are you looking for a design team willing to embrace indentured servitude?

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#21
In reply to #18

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/30/2009 3:23 PM

thanks for information. I have contacted Scaled and he has the conceptual sketch showing the propulsion configuration. Just sent sketch out this morning. Hope to here back from Scaled soon. I will keep you posted.

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#19

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/30/2009 1:26 PM

Tom,

I would be interested in helping, I'm not a CAD or SW person. I was an aviation electrician in the Navy though and I currentlly design and fabricate electrical systems for factories and vehicles. Let me know if I can help out mike.rainier@raincoofdallas.com

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/30/2009 3:14 PM

On a electric turbo fan engine how much power is needed to operate. If more electric is added will electric turbo fan incease its output of thrust. Is there a limit on the speed a electric turbo fan engine can operate. Thanks for the help

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#22
In reply to #20

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

11/30/2009 10:45 PM

I can't answer what your needing, as an electrician we delt with all the sensors, bus systems and numerous other sub-systems.

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#23
In reply to #22

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/01/2009 12:22 AM

When you said submarian you got me think of under water propulsion. Under water craft using same propulsion configuration as VTOL aircraft. Underwater jet like engine. An engine that can suck in and push out large volume of water at high velocity though intake ports and exhaust ports. If anyone has any links to underwater engines or underwater propulsion give them a post. Thanks for help.

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Anonymous Poster
#24
In reply to #23

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/01/2009 1:19 AM

Underwater Engine with water in-water out.

Read, "Hunt for Red October," by Tom Clancy. The Russian TOP SECRET Submarine used such a drive system when it wanted to be super sneaky. Check it out.

Steve

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/01/2009 8:38 AM

I will research your suggestion. Thanks for the tip.

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#26
In reply to #23

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/01/2009 9:51 AM

Guess I'm real confused are you designing aircraft or submarines? Don't re-call saying I worked with submarines!

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#27
In reply to #23

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/01/2009 10:14 AM

Hello, Tom.

I have reservations about the 'Caterpiller Drive' used in the book The Hunt for Red October, or the MHD used in the film being effective for your aircraft, but sometimes answers hide in plain sight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive

Have you worked out the ducting of the turbofan? As you mentioned, this is certainly one of the lynchpins of your project. Can you share at least some of this with us?

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/01/2009 3:59 PM

The Pentex Aircrft. Intake ports criss cross with exhaust ports to create individual jet engine configaration. There are 5 thrust arms and 5 intake arms. creating 5 small engine ran by one engine central engine. There is an intake chamber and exhaust chamber which, attaches the engine to the thrust arms. There is only one deverter flap in the center top exhaust chamber. This disc shape deverter flap controls steering front ,back, and side to side direction. One throttle control. Build your own craft, this is the parts list.

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/01/2009 4:09 PM

Hey,Tom

Interesting description. Seems complex. Maybe a drawing would help. Sketch?

Still can't see what you're smokin'.

Cheers,

Stu.

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/02/2009 8:07 AM

This is actually a simple design with throttle and disc shape deverter flap for steering. The thrust arm and the intake arm configuration create stability. The key to the aircraft design is installing engine upside down. The exhuast is pointing up instead of down. Does this help. The thrust arms misdirect air to push down. With the last desciption and the previous desciption you may see the cofiguration. Start your design with engine pointing thrust going up. Start with a ball shape and add engine.

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#35
In reply to #30

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/04/2009 7:37 AM

Tom, the exhaust pointing up is counterintuative, but it is certainly your design to work out. With this layout, there can never be direct exhaust; that is to say, all exhaust must be vectored or ducted, and to some degree energy is wasted is direction changes. Is there not a built in inefficiency with this?

???

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#36
In reply to #35

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/04/2009 10:06 AM

This is a great response. When a vaccum hose is bent does it loose its suction. The funneling of ducts create vector. The air coming in through the intake ducts has only one escape, though the funneled thrust arm ports. The air has only one way to flow,and that is to least resistance,which is through the funneled thrust arms. The criss cross of intake arm ducts and thrust arm ducts, create small engines. Some power could be lost in this configuration.Helicopters use more fuel then planes, but the job a helicopter does over rides the cost factor of fuel. When installing engine in standard thrust position creates a top heavy craft. By having weight of engine in center, and fuel and cargo at bottom of craft, this will create the weebles effect, weebles wabble but they don't fall down. Thanks again.

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#39
In reply to #36

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/08/2009 3:38 PM

Tom,

When a vacuum hose is bent it indeed does lose suction.

Incresed line friction and boundary layer turbulence. Take a lot of math, which I won't go into here, to determine how much, but it nevertheless does.

Cheers,

Stu,

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#54
In reply to #35

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

01/13/2010 11:34 PM
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#55
In reply to #54

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

01/14/2010 1:24 AM

How does this fly,Tom? Where do you get the lift forces? I must be missing something? Cheers, Stu

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#57
In reply to #55

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

01/16/2010 12:56 AM

The engine supplies the thrust for lift. By pushing air equally though exhaust ducts. once in forward flight the bottom of craft shaped like bird wings. A tight almost dive mode shape. I talked to Chris, he is helping on design.

This is off the subject, does electric go to ground. Is there an equation. In normal housing electric. Does lightning go to ground. Is there an equation.

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#58
In reply to #57

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

01/16/2010 6:31 AM

Lightning certainly does go to ground. Your electric supply comes in a two conductor cable, one 'active' and one 'neutral'. The earth conductor is there in your load (house, appliance, metal lamp, etc) to act as a 'safety' device, should there be a fault in the load device, in which case the current does go to ground. This 'short' would trip out the fuse ( breaker, etc), to let you know there is a fault. In early days the electric reticulation was of a single conductor with the 'earth', or ground taking up the duty of 'neutral'. Not like that these days. There are dozens of equations, but not to succinctly explain just what I said. Cheers, Stu

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#59
In reply to #58

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

01/16/2010 11:42 AM

lightning is made in in a rain filled sky. It gets its power from the moisture content particle colliding causing friction. Lightning lives in the moisture in the cloulds

Does calculation of lightning to ground, include = lightning goes to moisture content in ground .

I have seen where a lady lived in a cave house, in storms she tells stories of lightning hitting rocks, she said there must be something in the rock that atracts lightning. It is not the rock but the channels of water flowing around the rock that attract lightning. She said she could sometimes feel current coming from the rocks.

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#37
In reply to #27

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/08/2009 2:27 PM

I was checking in to see if anyone has figured out the thrust arm ducts configuration from details of the design I have given.

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#38
In reply to #37

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/08/2009 2:58 PM

Hey there Tom. Happened to be by the switch.

I have given some thought to your previous post... I asked about inefficiency of your exhaust all deing ducted, and you said "When a vaccum hose is bent does it loose its suction." True, it does not lose it's suction, but the efficiency quantity of inflow is reduced... slightly. When you bend the vacuum hose, you can hear a slight change in the motor, no? Motor working harder, trying to maintain negative pressure. Thus, efficiency is compromised. If you look inside furnace or A/C ducts in a commercial building, the fittings that change directions of the pressurized air will have vanes inside the duct, to help to REDUCE (not eliminate) the drag inherent in direction change. I guess I see a lot of space dedicated to transfer of exhaust gas.

Where do you forsee the intake air? I assume the top. When near the ground, with ground effect, will there not be a fair amount of undesireable stuff ingested, no matter where intake is?

I cannot remember now; did you say this design resembles two umbrella, placed canopy to canopy? Flying saucer style? More like a football, squished out a little top to bottom? Is this craft not fitted with aerodynamic surfaces? At what speed do they contribute to lift? At what speed will they be able to provide control?

"By having weight of engine in center, and fuel and cargo at bottom of craft, this will create the weebles effect, weebles wabble but they don't fall down." What is at the top of your craft? In a Weeble, I believe their top is empty. That is why they wobble!

Remember, Tom. My comments are intended to be constructive. If you can share more with us (instead of making us guess), we may truly be able to contribute something useful. At any rate, this is an interesting and thought provoking conversation. Thanks, Tom.

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#40
In reply to #38

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/08/2009 5:46 PM

I based this design on helicopter lift. Air being pushed down over craft gives lift. What else contributes to lift on helicopter design. What about earlier designs of disc craft. Was the bottom of craft designed to create lift once forward speed reached certain speed. The stablity of early designs was key feature that was lacking. The eight engine design by moller did you notice any extra features that contributed to lift. The first Pentex design was designed to land on water, kind of like a fishing bobber. The only weight at top of craft is the deverter flap. You sit in craft with your back against the engine compartment. Honda Jet has a 4' tall and less that 24" in diameter and only weights 400 pounds. I think it is called a turbo fan jet engine. Thanks for your imput and output answers.

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#41
In reply to #40

Re: Is it a flying disc?

12/08/2009 6:28 PM

There, Tom. Now, did that hurt so much?

I am interested in your idea, but it seems like a game of 20 questions. Even though you didn't really answer questions about control surfaces, I now believe there are not any (of any substance).

"The eight engine design by moller did you notice any extra features that contributed to lift." No, I did not. I thought we were discussing your concept.

"What else contributes to lift on helicopter design." Primary lift in a helicopter is from the rotary wings. I thought we were discussing your concept.

???

(edit: I see Tom sent me an IM, with a sketch.)

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: Is it a flying disc?

12/08/2009 7:00 PM

The first Pentex drawing was configed like a fishing bobber to land on water. The propulsion system can be installed in a saucer shape. If fuel efficency is to be achieved some form of wing is needed. Possibly bottom of craft shaped to give lift. The top of craft will be tipped to direction of flight, somewhat like helicopters fly. The wings would have to adjust to this forward tipping, they would give leading edge of craft lift. Sorry about taking so long getting to the punch line. Thanks for the reply

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#46
In reply to #40

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/08/2009 11:51 PM

Tom,

The only lift a helicopter gets is from its rotating wings,(yes, they're little wings on sticks attached to the rotor hub) The fuselage contributes nothing to flight (or infinitessimaly small amount, and only at very high forward velocity).

The Moller is just eight little helicopters all coupled together. Well, that's not really true, the 'wings' aren't dynamically controllable, as to pitch. Probably easier to envision an unskirted hovercraft. And he's been 30 years trying to get that to work.

When do we see a sketch of your thinking?

Attach a jet engine to a barn door and it'll fly, as long as you can controll the angle of incidence with controll surfaces ( elevators and rudder). As you work the geometry from this, back, through elipse, to a sphere, flight becomes more difficult to attain.

I've been guessing that you want to make a 'horizontal elipse' fly?

Cheers,

Stu.

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#47
In reply to #46

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/09/2009 12:50 AM

Birds have the best design for flight. They were built to fly. Hawks wings when stretched out can stay aloft with minimal wing flapping. They catch wind currents to stay aloft. Giving the bottom of craft a wing shape would help to make a more efficient flying craft. Keeping wings as short as posible will alow craft to make tighter turn. A double shallow arch shape on bottom of craft might work.

This has to do more with lift and fuel efficiency, This will help in longer flight time. Thanks for your answers.

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#49
In reply to #47

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/14/2009 6:41 AM

Tom,

Now you'll have to forgive me, but I've wondered for a while, before this, if this post is in fact a put-on.

With the last few comments of yours it seems to me that you're either not sure what you want to design, or you're 'pulling my leg'.

I have to do other things now, so I'll leave you to have your fun with the other guys.

Seems to me that the 'discussion' is purposely going round in circles.

There's very little more to do on the basic principles of flight. We are all governed by, or perhaps have to work within, the laws of physics. Not saying that there's not some more inventing to do in this realm. There is. But it's way deeper than that being indicated/exposed here.

Folks have been working on 'lifting body' aircraft for quite a while. There's not much that hasn't been tried.

Maybe a good idea to try Google. Lots of stuff from there.

Good luck,

Cheers,

Stu.

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#53
In reply to #49

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/15/2009 1:23 PM

You sound like you have done alot of home work and read alot of books.. What our your thoughts on the best engine electric or gas or propellent...

The faster the engine spinns the more air is compressed pushing air out ducts, screw drive or tornatic drive...

Wind power variable high speed electric generators. Motor and generator need to work without air, space vaccum

Magnetic brushless generator ....

might need some help to config, Tom Daily

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#31

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/02/2009 11:32 AM

Iam a private pilot and like yors idea i have some experience on stol because i spend tree yars to assemble the fuselage the wings the motor and instal al the radios, transponder .ligths probes Altimeter variometer etc.

In the end wen the plane is redy we have to wait more than a year for the certifica├žao

Ramos

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#32
In reply to #31

Re: One engine VTOL aircraft design

12/02/2009 2:33 PM

It seems Ramos from Potugal may have solved the the thrust arms and intake arms configuration. The use of arrows to show which way air is flowing may help in drawing the Pentex. 5 intake arms and five thrust arms. Start with a circle then install engine upside down. I am sure others will see the propulsion configuration of craft design. Thanks for your reply. If you think you have the answer send in a reply.

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#48

Re: One Engine VTOL Aircraft Design

12/14/2009 12:47 AM

Hi tom daily,

I have many designs of VTOL's I would show them to you but risk of you stealing my Ideas. Anyway here's one of my Ideas: If you want to make a VTOL work remember the ratio: you need 6 times more lift for VTOL aircraft.

See Attachments: Drawing/Pics

Next Pic:

Next Pic:

Next Pic:

I Didn't make all these VTOL's But I have a better Idea for your Idea!

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#52
In reply to #48

Re: One Engine VTOL Aircraft Design

12/15/2009 12:34 AM

It sounds like you have alot of knowledege on VTOL. I am glad people are interest in achieving new possiblities. Have you done research on engines and thrust. if you have any more information let me know.

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#50

Re: One Engine VTOL Aircraft Design

12/14/2009 11:59 PM

SKYWALKER AIR VEHICLE

This was featured in the December Issue of Design Engineering Magazine based on the use of Solidworks Software and other innovative techniques including 3D printing for prototype parts.

Look Carefully at how it works. The photos don't show the ducts well, but it is not a method I've seen before. www.skywalkervtol.com

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#51
In reply to #50

Re: One Engine VTOL Aircraft Design

12/15/2009 12:17 AM

Thanks for the help. That is an informational sight.

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#56

Re: One Engine VTOL Aircraft Design

01/15/2010 4:15 PM

I can contribute Tom.

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#60

Re: One Engine VTOL Aircraft Design

01/29/2010 1:26 PM

a wealth of stuff there.. GA

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#62
In reply to #60

Re: One Engine VTOL Aircraft Design

01/29/2010 9:53 PM

There are alot of designs dual prop, ceter fan , thrust vector, . The 6 thrust arm design, has know exterior moving parts and one central steering and a throttle. ; Joystick for steering, which ever direction you push joystick that is the way you go. The other lever is hieght control, like a boat throttle lever, with auto hieght lock in. The angle of the thrust arm ducts should Not be at 90 degrees. It should about 10 degrees off 90 degree,pushing force slightly to center. The shape of bottom of craft should give craft lift in forward motion. Thanks for the help Chris

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#61

Re: One Engine VTOL Aircraft Design

01/29/2010 9:25 PM

The electric motors are getting better and better. Batteries are also getting better and more compact. The combination of these technologies will help advance men in space, along with renewable energy being captured from the sun and used to power spacecraft. Is it possible to make air in outer space? That will be a great invention! If you had a generator in outer space and you got it spinning making electricity and removed power, How long will it stay spinning making electricity. Is it true once in motion always in motion? Let me know if you have any answers to these questions.

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#63
In reply to #61

Re: One Engine VTOL Aircraft Design

01/29/2010 11:16 PM

Newtons First Law: "An object in motion will stay in motion and an object at rest will stay at rest unless acted upon by an external force" or "A body persists in a state of uniform motion or of rest unless acted upon by an external force."

However... if you continue to 'make electricity', that is a load, which would constitute an 'external force' on the flywheel, so the flywheel part of the generator would continue to translate it's mechanical energy into electrical energy, but the result would be a non-linear braking effect on the flywheel.

Chris

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#64
In reply to #63

Re: One Engine VTOL Aircraft Design

01/30/2010 9:45 AM

Found a site avtolt.com Advanced Technologies company This looks like a great company to show concept to A nice drawing and a sell sheet, which list the features and benifits of this new product. A one page sell sheet. They might want to run a couple quick test to check the stability in wind tunnel simulator.

What is the drag of a magnetic floating bearing generator. How much torque does it take so create 110 volts of eletricity. What is the rpm needed? Do they make high speed variable speed generators. Thanks for the help Chris

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#65
In reply to #64

Re: One Engine VTOL Aircraft Design

01/31/2010 12:32 AM

Tom,

1. Bearings. From my looking around, no one is publishing such data as 'drag'. I suspect that there are too many variables with any given application to be able to derive general data. Every application will vary dynamically with the load applied, and the coefficeint of friction is non-linear with respect to the load. A common application is with large centrifugal chillers, which traditonally very noisy, and require extensive oil management systems for the bearings. Magnetic bearings have been successfully used to eliminate a great deal of the noise, cost, and complexity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_bearing

http://www.turbocor.com/products_technology/magnetic.html

http://www.govenergy.org/pdfs/presentations/Technology-Session06/Technology-Session06-Kistler_Paul.pdf

http://www.skf.com/portal/skf_rev/home

http://www.levitronix.com/Tech.php

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/spinoff1996/62.html

http://mcemechanical2006.pbworks.com/f/AMB-chances_and_limit.pdf

http://www.mecos.com/pdf/PHD_0003.PDF

As for 110/120 VAC, most systems would be rated in terms of watts and horsepower (1hp = 746 watts) and of course, generators are rated in watts.

but if you want to get into torque..

I think that you might consider starting a thread for some of these design questions, as I'm not an engineer.. I've just worked with a bunch of em.

Chris

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#66

Re: One Engine VTOL Aircraft Design

08/07/2010 3:30 PM

There are only 2 VTOL designs using 1 motor that work reasonably well & this depends a lot on pilot experience. That I have come across.

Check out "rc sidewinder rocket" google it U will notice the tail is very wide 19 in,this coupled with large control surface that move pretty fast,help make this stable check the video. Also note that there is a lot of back forward movement. Try balancing a stick on your hand u get the same effect.

The other uses Contra rotating props & sits on its tail like the rocket. This I think was based On a Design from around the 60's with a VTOL gas tubine powered machine. I think it was Xb or maybe xv something trialed by US Navy on land & carriers.

None of the models use gyroscopes. Though there is 1 around on the net using 2 ducted fans which tilt. This apparently uses several gyros.

I intend to build a version of the sidewinder in about a month. The front motor fin assy will placed closer to the tail.

Cheers John McManus

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#67
In reply to #66

Re: One Engine VTOL Aircraft Design

08/10/2010 9:41 PM

Hey John

I looked at the RC sidewinder rocket. A shorter version may fly better. A rope walker uses long pole for balance. Three outriggers could help in balance. Its like those toys that balance on your finger.

Maybe you can post pictures of your craft when yuou get it built.

Tom Daily

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#68
In reply to #67

Re: One Engine VTOL Aircraft Design

08/14/2010 11:29 AM

Hello out there

rc rotorcraft 4 blade rotocraft check out these designs four seperate engines working together to lift heavy payloads

www.minijets.org Small jet engine with power

check into rc planes and helicopters there are lot of flying craft designs out there......if you find any cool designs post and share them here.

Tom Daily

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#69
In reply to #68

Re: One Engine VTOL Aircraft Design

08/14/2010 12:20 PM

great link tom. awesome to see a sailplane that can take off on its own, with just 2 microjets. (silent J) here is the page of video links from your site.

http://www.minijets.org/typo3/index.php?id=197

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