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Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/07/2009 11:15 AM

Consider this ladder of 1 ohm resistors, extending to infinity:

What is the resistance R looking into the ladder?

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#1

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/07/2009 11:24 AM

2Ω.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/07/2009 11:47 AM

I count 3Ω. No?

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/07/2009 12:00 PM

Don't spill the beans until SSCpal states it isn't homework!

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/07/2009 12:10 PM

OOPS!

Gotta get better at watching for 'Homework Trollers'.

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#5

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/07/2009 1:11 PM

I'm pretty sure it's 8.67 Ω, but I might have rounded off wrong.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/07/2009 1:45 PM

No no, it's at least 2∏x30.5 + a tad. .
I could never see the point in these problems, in reality, you'd just work it out for 1 or two sections and that would be close enough for whatever...

More than 2 less than 3, errr, lets call it 2.5, Oh the nearest standard value is 2.4 that'll do...
Or if it's a real life situation stick a meter across it...

Who the heck messes with 1ohm Rs these days?... ok prob the psu and power train guys? (Nah they'd be using 0.01R ?) I'dunno, blimey I need to get back to makin' bows.
Del

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#13
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Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/07/2009 6:34 PM

I used to work for a state college and we were allowed to buy government surplus at something like $.05 a pound. Mostly junk, but some good stuff. I once got a big box of precision resistors, something like 10 Ω, 0.5%, so I made one of these 3D puzzles just to see. It worked out. But I never had the urge to do that again. Sort of like peeing on the electric fence. Once was fun, but that's it.

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#6

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/07/2009 1:37 PM

Standby, I am modeling it on a computer (what's the resistance of the interconnections between the resistors?).

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#8

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/07/2009 2:05 PM

Fellows, I'm 65, retired and haven't done homework since 1967. I saw it on a bathroom wall at Purdue back then. This puzzle does not need a computer or math beyond algebra, just some logical thought. And the answer is not 2 or 3. I will wait a day and give hints if no one has got it.

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#16
In reply to #8

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/07/2009 7:49 PM

Well, alright then. Lessee, You take 1, then half the other side, that's..um.. 2.5. Then add 1 in parallel with 167/549 (no, crap!) ok, in parallel with n/n2+1. Now, I take the log. Um, can't find Smolley's Tables, so flip lucky coin. Hah! 2.6666... Ω

But the real question is why you were in the Ladies Bathroom at Pudue in 1967? Wasn't that the Summer of Love? Mmmm. Durn hippy Boilermakers had all the fun.

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#9

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/07/2009 2:13 PM

8.1437292x pi I think. What type of solder is being used and what gauge wire? Do we account for humidity or is it in a nitrogen enviroment?

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#10

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/07/2009 2:35 PM

2+ 1/∞

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#11

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/07/2009 3:30 PM

Nice problem, SSCpal, but you should have left out the resistors along one side. Had you done so, the problem would have had a much, much more mathematically-interesting solution: the net resistance would have been phi ohms, and the set of partial solutions along the way would have formed a perfect Fibonnaci sequence.

No donut.

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#12

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/07/2009 6:16 PM

2 ohms

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#14
In reply to #12

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/07/2009 6:37 PM

I could solve this except forget how to do quadratic equations.

R=2+(R*1)/(R+1)

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#44
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Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/14/2009 2:42 AM

Afterwards, I realised that you have found the right equation first.I think that you deserve, also, a GA from me. However, it is a kind of "favour" as you don't get a result and you don't explain how you got this equation.

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#15

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/07/2009 6:53 PM
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#17

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/07/2009 11:00 PM

It's interesting to see people so confidently give the wrong answer.

And interesting to see people state that it's a waste of time doing these problems.

The skills you develop doing these problems, help you solve real world problems.

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#27
In reply to #17

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 5:14 AM

I've managed all these years...
I could solve it, if necessary...but I've yet to meet a situation where such a calculation was necessary.
I shall put on my tin helmet in case of any more sniping
Del

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#18

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 1:00 AM

I get 1+(3)^0.5 ohms or

2.732051... ohms

But my proof is weak and I'd be interested in seeing a proper one.

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#19

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 1:33 AM

8/3 Ω

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#20

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 1:48 AM

2.7320508075689............ Ohm

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#21

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 2:31 AM

i am a mechanical engineer, so plz go easy on me, but here's my approach

i divided the circuit like the above image, each star to triangle, if each resistance = R, then each star will have 2R/3 resistance as seen from any two points, then we have n stars in parallel, hence the total resistance of the stars would be 2R/3n, which are in parallel to 1 and 2, thus now we have 2R/(3n+1), which are in series with 3, thus the total resistance of the circuit is R + 2R/(3n+1), when n goes higher, the second factor goes towards zero, so for n -> infinity, the total resistance approaches R, and R=1, so the complete circuit has a resistance of 1 Ohm.

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#22

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 2:51 AM

0.5 Ohm

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#23

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 3:50 AM

Rtotal=2,73 R

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 4:00 AM

The eguation is: Rtotal = 2*R + R*Rtotal/(R+Rtotal)

The above equation becomes: Rtotal2 - 2*R*Rtotal - 2*R2

If you solve this equation you get: Rtotal = 2,73*R (as we reject the negative solution)

With R=1Ω you get: Rtotal = 2,73Ω

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 4:28 AM

As an explanation for the above equation:

In the front end of the network we have 3 resistors in series: R + R1 + R

The R1 consists of the (middle) resistor R in parallel with the rest of the network. But the "rest of the network" is exactly the same as the total (initial) network (and it is so exactly because the network is extended to infinity). So, the R1 is [the R in parallel with Rtotal]

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 5:00 AM

You are probably right, i used your approach, made a small excel iteration, and i had 2.732051... with R=1

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#31
In reply to #24

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 6:46 AM

Sorry... When I wrote: ..... Rtotal2 - 2*R*Rtotal - 2*R2

I (obviously) meant: ..... Rtotal2 - 2*R*Rtotal - 2*R2 = 0

(I forgot the "= 0" ...These happen when you are in a hurry... ...)

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#32
In reply to #31

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 7:46 AM

Ah, the missing 0 is probably due to me , always going 'Oh' and therefore using up more than my share.
Dunno who filched the '=' prob Kris, he's always nicking stuff and stashing it esp' this time of year.
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#28

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 5:46 AM

1+sqrt(3) ohms

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#29

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 5:49 AM
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#30
In reply to #29

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 6:44 AM

Simple, elegant, legible GA from the Cat.. wish I cud du maths

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#49
In reply to #30

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

03/06/2013 7:34 AM

"wish I cud du maths."

So does Kris. All those KrisDel products and somebody's got to balance the books.

Yes, I realise you're a cat, but he's a squirrel and so you've got no excuse.

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#50
In reply to #29

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

03/06/2013 7:35 AM

Love that font. What's it called?

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#33

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 8:19 AM

Well, I don't get to use any of my witty clues, as several of you got it. Since the ladder extends to infinity, we can add another section on the front end and it still reads R. So R must equal 2+(1 parallel R). Rewrite it as a quadratic equation, solve for R and we get 1+sqrt 3. It is an irrational (mathematically), but not as irrational (logically) as some of the answers were. There, I managed to get a little wit in.

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#34

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 8:45 AM

As an interesting asside (or maybe not) how many sections would you need to consider if you were working it out longhand to get an answer within the (say) 5% tolerance of the resistors...?
My guess is prob just one or two sections, but being a cat I can't be bothered.
I expect one of you guys who's put it into Excel could give an answer.
I'll wub you if you do...prrrr prrrr.
Del

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#35
In reply to #34

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 9:04 AM

You are very close, actually, you start with 3 ohms, which is already at an error of less than 10%, then you go to 2.75 and that's less than 1%, then to 2.733333 and that's almost like 0.0469%. I hope that's what you were asking for.

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#36
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Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 9:19 AM

Ta,
Yes, that confirms what I suspected about the daftness of the Q in real terms
Del

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#38
In reply to #34

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 4:14 PM

Del Quote "As an interesting asside (or maybe not) how many sections would you need to consider if you were working it out longhand to get an answer within the (say) 5% tolerance of the resistors...?"

One added section to the front resistors get the answer to 2.75.

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#39
In reply to #34

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 4:47 PM

Well D'Oh, that's the hard way. Do it like I do. Start out at ∞ and work your way back. Piece of cake. Say, can you spare a fellow a pencil? Mine's down to a nub.

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#37

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/08/2009 12:31 PM

It appears that the infinite resistor seem to equate to 0.70 ohms

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#40

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/09/2009 5:34 AM

The reading you will get is 2 ohms.This is because the rest of the network which is infinite will give zero resistance

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#41
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Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/09/2009 5:51 AM

Hi,
For you and the others who think the answer is two.
The following pic shows what happens if you consider most of the resistors down the ladder to be zero ohms, shown by grey lines... you are still left with more than two ohms. You have the first two resistors then the middle one with 2ohms across it.
This gives 2+ (1 in parallell with 2)
which equates to 2+ 2/3 ohms which is 2.666, which is close enough for most practical purposes.

Hope this clarifies it
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#42
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Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/09/2009 6:39 AM

Ah, but you forgot to include the fact that this ladder was soldered by the typical student who thinks that it's enough to have the wires within 4 cm of one another and let the solder make the joint, then holds the iron on for 18-20 minutes and changes the resistance to 24 Ω.

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#43
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Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

12/09/2009 9:13 AM

Ah, I see you are acquainted with one of my former technicians!

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#45

Simple Resistor Puzzle - Supplementary

12/14/2009 5:57 AM

Ok, the result is 1±√3.

What (if anything) is the physical significance of the 1-√3 (that's -0.732Ω) solution?

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#46
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Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle - Supplementary

12/14/2009 5:59 AM

Ah to be sure that's what you read if you swap the meter leads.

Ohhh, no, even better, it's when you measure from the other end of the infinite chain, It's rather a long walk to get there, but trust me, when or if you ever do...that's what it measures.
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#48
In reply to #45

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle - Supplementary

01/08/2010 7:04 PM

Ah, grasshopper, - 0.732 is the sound of one Ohm clapping. Please light one candle and put 50 pee in the collection. Move along quickly.

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#47

Re: Simple Resistor Puzzle

01/08/2010 5:34 PM

Pretty sure its 1+√3.

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