Previous in Forum: Wireless Instruments   Next in Forum: Displacer-Type Level Transmitter
Close
Close
Close
7 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Participant

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3

Butterfly Valves

12/10/2009 2:15 AM

In one of the gas filtering and metering stations, a butterfly valve (B.V) skid (two runs) is installed upstream ultrasonic-based (USM) metering skid (two streams) such that the outlet isolation ball valve of the B.V skid goes to the same header to which the inlet isolation ball valve of the USM is connected.

The B.V is equipped with smart Siemens positioner and Biffi pilot.

The B.V is required to function as flow limiting tool.

The station PLC (installed in the control room) compares flow rate set values (manually daily-entered) with USM actual flow measurements and sends electrical analog (4/20 mA error signal) to the smart positioner which drives the Biffi pilot and finally this pilot control the B.V movement (opening percentage).

The problem is as follows:

As long as the PLC 'sees' the actual flow (measured by USM) is greater than the flow rate values set points, it forces the B.V to close till reaches 15% opening. Then every thing went into chaos/disorder.

At increasing load demand from power plant, the butterfly valve is strongly throttling the flow, the buffer size between the gas station and the power plant is small (few meters pipeline), the pressure downstream the B.V starts to decay and the DP across the B.V starts to increase, noise / vibration generated in the P/L and the USM paths starts to be lost and of course the error signal of the PLC sent to the B.V is erratic and the USM could give erroneous reading of flow rates 3 times higher than the station max. flow. This situation will continue till we isolate the Butterfly operation.

Waht I want to discuss is :

What is exactly the cause of this problem ?

What is this butterfly doing ?

Could any one give me problem analysis ?

Any suggestions?

I'm drowning Please HELP ??????????????

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#1

Re: Operating butterfly valve below 20% opening

12/10/2009 3:54 AM

Does the valve have vortex-breaking "fingers" on the downstream side of the disc?

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Operating butterfly valve below 20% opening

12/10/2009 6:08 AM

The butterfly valve is Vanessa 3000 and actually I do not have if it has these 'fingers' on the disc or not.

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#3

Re: Butterfly Valves

12/10/2009 11:04 PM

We had a slightly similar problem with a large butterfly valve when it was near its closed end of travel (btwn 5%open to 15%open). To cut a long story short, we had to weld a butterfly valve bypass pipeline in, 25% of the origional line size and put a small butterfly control valve in that. Control strategy was: once the large valve reached closed, the little one in the bypass line was still fully open and that valve then started to throttle back to shut. The opposite in reverse, small one would open up and when fully open the big one would start to open. This prevented the big one having to make small changes near the fully closed position. Expensive, 2 valves, extra piping, a more complex control strategy ect. But fixed control problem.

Rok

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Anonymous Poster
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Butterfly Valves

12/12/2009 4:48 AM

Mr Rok

can you give me the control logic with diagram i will be obliged to u

Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3
#5
In reply to #3

Re: Butterfly Valves

12/13/2009 1:38 AM

Thank you very much for your valuable feedback.

We are waiting for some help soon from the manufacturer.

I will let you know if they come up with useful solutions to this problem.

Ayman

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 8
#6

Re: Butterfly Valves

12/19/2009 4:44 PM

Seems like very good solution, posted by Mr. Rok.

As to U-sonic flowmeter, just wanted to add that I would investigate a chance to:

a) allow for longer averaging to eliminate erroneous output, which is a compromise though. Don't make averaging too long, say about 5-7 seconds may help.

b) replace U-sonic gauge for the one of more solid technology, like Vortex or Coriolis or Thermo Mass - selection will be driven by accuracy, flow rate, rangeability required, pipe size, straight run available and max pressure first of all.

Also, the idea of having a single meter to serve 2 applications - flow control and fiscal metering - is not always best and somewhat stingy when you build a metering skid. I'd look into that as well, as besides control problem - hidden fiscal losses may exist here and very likely they do.

Juri.

Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1
#7

Re: Butterfly Valves

01/10/2010 2:24 AM

Why not use an adequate control valve like a globe Valve with Equal% plug

This could enhance ur control mechanism and fix ur problem

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 7 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (2); ayman1971 (2); Cairo (1); JS (1); PWSlack (1)

Previous in Forum: Wireless Instruments   Next in Forum: Displacer-Type Level Transmitter

Advertisement