Previous in Forum: What is Anodised Aluminum?   Next in Forum: Clean Steel for 304
Close
Close
Close
16 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Member

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9

Gaseous Conductor Resistance

12/21/2009 11:03 PM

Would a gaseous conductor increase or decrease resistance (electron flow) with increase of acceleration relative to frame of reference?

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore, India
Posts: 725
Good Answers: 24
#1

Re: Gaseous Conductor Resistance

12/23/2009 12:43 AM

Unless it is a plasma, a gas does not conduct electricity in normal conditions. Is it something special that is being considered?

__________________
bioramani
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Gaseous Conductor Resistance

12/23/2009 8:13 AM

Perhaps he's talking about the ionization chamber of a smoke detector?

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#2

Re: Gaseous Conductor Resistance

12/23/2009 6:35 AM

This sounds like a misinterpretation of a coursework question to me.

If it's not coursework, but a matter of interest based on something you have read, please provide context and we'll see if we can make some sense of it.

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9
#4

Re: Gaseous Conductor Resistance

12/23/2009 11:02 PM

Ok, maybe a Plasma or other conductor negating frictional resistance of a boundary

wall (magnetic). A thought experiment regarding a superconductive effect

by increase of velocity of conductor relative to rest mass. Has anyone tested

resistance values of conductors while moving?

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore, India
Posts: 725
Good Answers: 24
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Gaseous Conductor Resistance

12/24/2009 12:23 AM

Considering the velocity of electrons any forward motion of gas(inos) will be negligible.

__________________
bioramani
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9
#6

Re: Gaseous Conductor Resistance

12/26/2009 12:15 AM

Moving Conductor experiments with interest in electron changes relative to rest mass.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore, India
Posts: 725
Good Answers: 24
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Gaseous Conductor Resistance

12/26/2009 11:40 AM

Ions in a plasma may be moving with an average velocity of 12000 km/hr. It is doubtful if such velocities can be achieved by pumping a gas through a pipe.

__________________
bioramani
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Gaseous Conductor Resistance

12/27/2009 8:15 PM

I am not interested in practical function of a particular Plasma or else, just defining

theoretical interest mathematically, If one had a conductor and was able to provide

a momentum, then apply a potential of electrons through the moving conductor

would the resistance increase or decrease relative to increase of momentum of

said moving conductor. A simple increase or decrease answer with reasoning would be appreciated. Thanks Bioramani.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore, India
Posts: 725
Good Answers: 24
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Gaseous Conductor Resistance

12/28/2009 9:07 AM

That could be a difficult task. Let us see if we can think this through from first principles. Electric current is proportional to the number of charges (electrons or ions) crossing a section of the conductor, assuming that the conductor itself is stationary. If the conductor is a fluid that is in motion the number of charge carriers crossing will increase. The current should therefore ordinarily increase proportionately.

What do you think?

__________________
bioramani
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#10
In reply to #8

Re: Gaseous Conductor Resistance

12/29/2009 6:48 AM

Apply Fleming's hand rules, and see what happens.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9
#11

Re: Gaseous Conductor Resistance

12/29/2009 5:38 PM

So by that reference one is to say the resistance(ohms)of the moving conductor

(not interested in direction Mr.Fleming) will increase with increasing momentum

of the Conductor relative to a stationary observer. I will have to think about that

more. I will try to visualize it in relativistic terms. I will say this much, Time for a mass

will decrease relative to a stationary observer and therefor possibly the molecular

action will also decrease causing the same effect as supercooling a stationary

conductor.. What do you think?

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore, India
Posts: 725
Good Answers: 24
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Gaseous Conductor Resistance

12/30/2009 12:56 AM

Not quite.

Current flows in a closed circuit. One can consider a copper ring fitted on an insulator and provided with brushes to let in and take out the current. With the ring stationary set a particular current flowing. By rotating the ring at varying speeds technically more elctrons can be made to be carried along. Assuming the diection of rotation is compatible with this. Otherwise it will hinder.

The numbers are rather intimidating. Approximately 6.24 x 1012 electrons or single charged ions have to cross a section of the conductor /sec for even one micro ampere current. One Faraday (96500 Coulombs) reuires the movement of 6.0221415 x 1023 unit charges (one Avagadro's number).

Though theoretically valid, unrealistic speeds may be needed to make any measurable change between stationary and moving conductors.

__________________
bioramani
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9
#13
In reply to #12

Re: Gaseous Conductor Resistance

12/30/2009 1:25 PM

That is what I tended to visualize in my thought experiment originally,

although The energy required for application of a moving conductor /electron

flow with no loss and superconductive effect is not attainable at this point.

Someone should present this as their Doctorate Thesis for recognition among

the Industry. Potential efficiency of such a device would be dramatic.

What do think of Energy to mass conversion?

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangalore, India
Posts: 725
Good Answers: 24
#14
In reply to #13

Re: Gaseous Conductor Resistance

12/30/2009 9:59 PM

Rewriting Einstein's equation: m= c2/E Since c2 is so large a lot of energy is required to make a small mass. May be that can happen inside a black hole.

__________________
bioramani
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9
#15

Re: Gaseous Conductor Resistance

01/02/2010 12:50 PM

Back to the moving conductor; although methods of Mass and electron transport are

setup in a redundancy platform, I find it quite rediculous that we have not

come up with a functional application at this time.

I would envision that a redundancy platform could still be in place most analogous

to the methods used by or own circulatory system, with a main acceleration

required with little loss in momentum wrapped around the planet for potential

charges and superconductive transport of mass products.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3531
Good Answers: 59
#16

Re: Gaseous Conductor Resistance

01/04/2010 12:01 PM

I've not got time to read all the contributions, so apologies if I am repeating what others have already written.

You are correct that acceleration would be the key feature. The easiest way to visualise this is as equivalent to placing the gas in a gravitational field. An extreme case would be equivalent to an ionised atmosphere - the conductivity-per-ion increases with altitude. Overall, I would anticipate an decrease in resistance perpendicular to the net gravitational field and a decrease along the direction of the field (both being even-order effects, of course) - but I could be oversimplifying.
N.B. that this assumes that collisions are sufficiently frequent that path curvature due to gravity does not dominate - in this case the resistance will increase for all directions of current flow.

If velocity relative to the observer becomes significant, we will have additional relativistic effects - all of which appear as increases in total resistance.

P.S. I am assuming the "gas" is charge-balanced, and ignoring the effects of externally-applied magnetic fields. Such fields are (to an extent) independent of the motion and will generally increase gas/plasma resistance.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 16 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (2); bioramani (6); brograzalea (6); Physicist? (1); PWSlack (1)

Previous in Forum: What is Anodised Aluminum?   Next in Forum: Clean Steel for 304

Advertisement