Converting a Natural Gas Fireplace to a Wood Burning Fireplace

My initial reaction is no, get a wood burning fire box. I'd be on the phone with the fire box manufacturer and my local building inspector. You'll probably find some guidance in the local building codes. You'll need a permit before you begin, I'd guess.

Wood fires aren't clean like gas and you'll have coals in direct contact with the walls of the box, a condition never anticipated with gas heat.

Good Luck!

So I would have to replace the gas insert with a wood burning insert. That is what I was thought. How does everything else sound as for the outside work and insulating? Am I on the right track for that? Thank you for your input. I live in a rural area so a building permit and building codes don't factor in too much. I am also guessing this is a bigger project than I want to do and wondering if putting a pellet or corn stove in the basement and piping it out would be easier and cheaper. Another problem I have with the fireplace is that there is a lot of cold air coming in through it. We just moved in last month so I haven't had a chance to investigate to find where the air is coming from so we just have blankets piled up in front of it now.

Building / creating an efficient & safe wood-burning space is almost an artform...

1. need the right kind of steel & gauge for the firebox - and a damper too

2. you need fire-brick

3. you have to create the right elevation for efficient draft

4. you should use ceramic flue liners if you generate constant, or high heat

5. I've seen chimney/stack enclosures which have gone very wrong - may consider exterior build

6. good luck - you need to seek some good advice from local resources - after all, your playing with fire...

I basically agree with LynLynch . . . but if you get creative enough, spend lots of money, you can do pretty much anything . . . but keep in mind that you may find yourself in a quandry with your insurance company too, especially if you have a fire. Most nearly all home fireplace systems . . . wood or gas . . . are UL listed. If you make a change . . . no more UL listing . . . and now if your insurance guy finds the modification . . . could be a major loss situation for you.

Another concern is life expectancy. If you modify the gas insert chances are you will drastically reduce the life expectancy of the unit. Old wood stoves that were made out of blued really thin sheet metal rarely lasted more than a couple of years. These days a lot galvanized metals are used, they last longer only if the galvanizing is protected from high temperatures.

If you are going to change it . . . why not go with a pellet burning insert . . . I put a pellet stove in my home about 3 years ago . . . I am total electric too. Cut my winter heating bills by over 300 bucks a month. It totally paid for its self in 2 years. The unit is totally wonderful, no dirt, bark chips, no hauling in load after load of wood, no worry about the wood pile being frozen to the ground or wet, fuel is highly consistent in quality, the ash pan is about the size of a 9 X 9 cake pan, I empty it after 10 or 12 bags of pellets, NO ash to speak of, it is thermostatic controlled, never have to "start" the fire, it does it with an electrical heater, pellets come in 40 pound bags and are readily available, cost is about 220 to 240 dollars per ton, which has 4 times the heating value of the same amount of wood, with a fire place you constantly worry about getting "green" wood . . . ugh . . . go with the pellet stove or insert . . . you will not regret it. Some pellet stoves are Beautiful!!!! Estimate your cost to be about 3,000 to 4,000 dollars to do the entire job.

Thank you very much for this insight and I should have guessed about the insurance company issue considering my wife works for a forensic engineering company that does fire investigations for insurance companies. So, all of these answers put my question to rest and the fireplace will just be a pretty decoration. Now I just need to get it sealed off to keep cold air from blowing in. I am going to look into the pellet stove. I have read a lot about how efficient they are. Do you have any idea if I could put it along a wall in my basement and pipe it out with out a whole lot of hassle? The basement (it is unfinished at this time) stays a lot colder than the upstairs and I am guessing that if I can keep it heated at the same or above the upstairs it would help a lot considering that the heat will rise.

The pellet burning process has been expanded to include centralized systems for heating and hot water, either as water circulators or as direct fired systems like a natural gas central air heating system. The cost factor is the only major consideration. Complete replacement of heat pumps and water heater is possible, but the cost could be in the 20,000 plus range. My installation of just the wood pellet stove has been I think the most economical. . . . of course, I have to carry in a bag of pellets a couple of times a day, where some of the large systems are designed with hoppers that hold a ton or more of pellets. Right now, the only way to get the pellets is by the bag . . . no bulk delivery service in Oklahoma. But if ever there was such a service I might consider upgrading to a "whole house" system.

Most of the pellet stoves are designed to use the same style direct exhaust as used by the propane or natural gas fire places. So upgrading your natural gas fireplace to either a pellet insert or a stove could easily be done. My propane fireplace, is just abandoned, it is still there and could be used if I wanted. My house is constructed so access for my stove to an exterior wall was not possible, so I had to put in a double wall stainless steel flue system. That cost me about another 1,000 dollars. The stove I bought off ebay, lol. I bought a multi-fuel stove that will burn wood pellets, corn, cherry pits, and even soybeans . . . the only other fuel I have tried is corn and a corn/woodpellet mix. Corn is EXPENSIVE . . . wood pellets is all I use now. So if you do not have direct access to an outside wall a flue pipe can be used. I sat my stove up off the floor on a short leg table . . . about the size of a large coffee table . . . I made the table myself. But tables like I made are readily available. I have a house with three heat pumps . . .My upstairs heater never comes on, it is always toasty and warm upstairs. My downstairs system I usually just run the fan, since it also has the house humidifier. Keeping the humidity level correct will keep the heat in the house better and also stop everything in the house from drying out.

Good Luck.

I have access to all but one outside wall in my basement so I was thinking of positioning the pellet stove centrally on the back wall and run the vent out just above the concrete wall of the basement. Could this vent be that low on the outside of the house? Is heat at the exit of the vent to the outside an issue that it would cause a fire or melt the siding around it? These are the things that I am not sure of but means that I should start studying more on the pellet stoves and gather all the information I can about them. Thank you for your input you have helped tremendously. Thank you all for your help. I have decided to leave the fireplace alone.

Entergy? Not sure of the spelling. My sister had major issues with them in KC.

Anyway, draft ,draw whatever you call it should be considered when placing the chimney. The top will need to be in clean air to draw properly. If it is terminated below the highest point of your roof, winds in the wrong direction will push the smoke/heat back down and out the stove.

Just something else to consider.

The exhaust port on my pellet stove is about 12 inches from the floor to centerline of the exhaust pipe out of the stove. The installation guide that came with my stove shows the outside exhaust fixture, which came with the stove, along with a short length of double wall pipe, to be mounted on the perfect horizontal plane with the exhuast exit. So I would say that yes, the outside fixture can be very low on the wall, just above the top of the concrete basement wall. In my opinion, not having to install the 1000 bucks worth of SS flue pipe will give you a little more budget increase to spend on the stove. I would be very careful about where you buy your stove . . . my stove that I purchased via e-bay, the identical stove at the local "pellet stove" dealer was over twice the cost, indentical stove to mine was priced at almost 4000 bucks when I bought it on e-bay for about 1900 . . . save yourself some big money . . . shop ON-LINE!!! In three years the only repair I have had to do was replace the door gasket . . . after I damaged it. So these things are not "in-development" . . . this technology is mature. Keep in mind that each stove has a plc of some kind that will control the pellet feeder, a thermocouple for senseing fire temp and firebox temp, has fans for combustion air and circulator air, requires AC power to work (so loss of electric power, will put your stove out of business) . . . so there are some disadvantages too.

YES, you will have to remove the existing gas fireplace. Being that it was vented out the rear indicates that it is a sealed combustion system. You should have no problem selling this on craigs list / e-bay. DO NOT try to modify. It is a listed product that has been certified by the AGA / CGA for GAS. BEFORE you remove the fireplace get an idea of the interior chase dimensions. Some gas fireplaces are fairly shallow ( 16") and you will not be able to find a wood burning fireplace this shallow. You will need to insulate ,poly, and sheetrock the interior of the chase at least to the first firestop but check with your local codes. Good Luck

Hi. What about making your own bio gas? and leave the fire place as is... http://www.popularmechanics.co.za/content/print_pop.asp?fid=1494

I'm no expert on fireplaces, but I would suspect you are going to need a new fire box, preferable with a built in ash trap... I would however make a point of keeping the gas line there, you can use the gas instead of wadded up newspaper for lighting your fire... I've seen wood burning fireplaces with gas lighters before so you should be able to find something on the market to fit the bill.

Call Service-Master, they'll come and determine what the best options are, they're good for this stuff. They may be able to get a volume discounted unit and you can rest assured your home owners insurance won't freak-out and you can DIY with their moral support.

First remove the gas fired unit, be sure you have a positive tight shut off valve in the basement or crawlspace.

Once removed look up to see if you have steel flue or clay tile flue, it does not sound like you do.

Next go on line and look up NFPA 211( National fire protection association ) this section deals with solid fuel burning appliances and the construction of the chimney.

Be aware that construction of a masonry unit will need a foundation below grade.

This can really get involved, so Contact a good contractor and your insurance company because the installation will be inspected by the local code officials and your insurance carrier.

GOOD LUCK.

Have you considered converting the gas fireplace to propane? Propane is expensive, and I wouldn't use it for heat on a regular basis, but it's an easy conversion and you can get some attractive fire logs to use in your fireplace. It would at least be an attractive and functional fire, and might be cheaper than buying wood (depending on where you live, maybe not in the country).

I have thought of that and if my memory serves me correctly that the propane vendor is the same as our electric company. Sounds kind of odd, I know. Please correct me if I am wrong but to be able to make the change from natural gas to propane all I would need to do is change the orifice in it and change the logs. Thank you for the thought at least by doing this it wouldn't decrease the value of the house by having a useless fireplace.

That works on grills, so I expect it would work for a fire log. Ask Hank Hill to be sure.

The best place to check on what is needed is the units manufacturer. Most likely they have a Natural to LP gas conversion kit that should consist of; a main burner orifice, a pilot orifice and and a pressure regulator for LP that mounts on the gas valve.

Changing to Propane is really simple, however around here (Ontario Canada) it can only legally be done by a qualified and licenced gas fitter. Propane pressures are much higher than natural gas pressures, so nozzles must be a LOT smaller. The installation manual that came with my gas fireplace has a section on how to convert to propane, bet yours does too. This will give you a pretty flame which you can gather around on blustery nights to enjoy. Forget about heating your house with it though...gas or propane fireplaces are simply NOT that good.

Its funny...I went the other way. Got rid of that smelly, smoky, dusty wood stove and replaced it with a nearly identical looking gas unit. I am kinda sorry to lose the wood stove though because a lot of trash got burned in there which now has to be disposed of in other ways. The insurance company loved me for that, saved me a bundle on fire insurance over the last ten years. You can run a natural gas double flue inside an existing wood stove flue no problem, you can rarely go the other way.

We have a company around here which makes wood furnaces which live outside the living space....and bring heat inside via hot water. The insurance companies love them. They have big fire boxes which can take four foot logs, broken crates, wood pellets, cardboard boxes, heck...anything that will burn. I hesitate to put an advertisent out here on this forum, but google "external wood furnaces" and you will find several models and dealers. This is by far the least expensive way to heat your house....My neighbour swears by his. He burns driftwood, sawdust, tree stumps and broken nail filled skids. The firebox is so large that it can handle a fair amount of damp or green wood because it gasifies it before it burns it. Because they burn hotter, they burn more efficently with less emmissions. He could heat a half dozen houses here in Canada with it if he chose to...(an opportunity to share costs...) He digs the ashes into his garden along with equal parts of pine needles, and grows champion tomatos. But they are not romantic family hearths, they are a hard nosed level headed answer to a problem. Wood pellet stoves are better for indoor applications.

More than likely you have a zero clearance fireplace. Find the make and model of the fire place and go online and get the install specs. What you will find out is that all the material around the fireplace is meant for zero clearance. The floor under the fireplace will be wood along with the framing inside and out. A traditional stone fireplace is out of the question with out major structural work.

However you may be able to locate and fit a zero or low clearance wood burning fire box and run a metal flue rated for wood up along the outside wall and box it in. You can not use the existing fire box/insert as it is certified for gas only.

You will need to know which codes apply for your conversion in order to maintain safety and your insurance.

Icarus, thank you for the advice and from all of the post that I have read the wood fireplace is out of the question. But, from everything that you said sounds exactly right to what I have, the zero clearance. With that being known, would you know where the cold air is coming from that is blowing in from under the firebox? The temp around here got down to the single digits for a week or two which is very unusual for this time of year or any time of year for that matter but cold air was blasting in from the bottom vents where the valve and pilot light is located. It was so bad that I put blankets in front of the vents to keep the air from coming in but then the metal and glass began to start frosting up above the blankets. Cold air still comes in but the temps are back up to normal which is hovering around the freezing mark.

You got an outside ventilated fire place! That is, one that burns outside air instead of air from inside the house. The flu has two pipes, one inside the other. The combustion air flows into the fire box through the outside pipe, and the exhaust gasses are expelled through the inside pipe. This is good because there is no way that carbon monoxide can end up in the living space.

Answer....install glass doors on your fire place.

You are correct in the venting if it does have a coaxial vent. All natural gas fireplaces that use a coax vent have a glass front, as the unit is built as a sealed combustion chamber. As the vent goes out through the wall this is most likely the case.

To:eng42day

If you have that much cold air coming in, It is either that part or all of the venting is disconnected/ damaged, or you have serious air infiltration problem of the house envelope at or near the fireplace.

As you stated that this is a new home, now is the time to get the builder involved. The only time that I have found this problem is for the above reasons.

Do not touch anything as the builder my try to claim that you caused the problem.

The major problem you will deal with is that wood burning is much less concistent (meaning steady) than gas and this WILL give you lots of smoke inside the house if you don't make serious mods in your chimmney to enhance the flow when flame is not strong enough or when wind blows in the wrong direction. 53 2E 4D 2E