Quality Issues - Consumer Power Tools

I am more conservative on my tool and equipment purchases so I tend to spend the bigger bucks onthe commecial and industrial aplication stuff. Thats right conservative means spending on quality so you dont have to keep replacing somthing!

The cheap ass's that call them selves conservative are the ones who keep buying the cheap crap and then complain about why it always dies quickly.

As far as Homelite, I have a old homelite chainsaw that was built inthe 1970's and it still runs well and has out lasted several of its newer homelite replacements.

I used to have Poulon chainsaws but their name says exactly what you get from them. You continualy have to pull on them to keep them running. I have yet to ever have one that, even when new, could sit and idle for more than 20 seconds without stalling. And in the rare occasion that one did manage to idle longer than that it would imediately stall as soon as I pulled the throttle trigger.

The old engine driven equipment had several carburetor adjustment screws that could be used to make the machine run better if nessisary. Now they took all of them out and give you a machine thats improperly tuned and is unadjustable right from the factory.

I have also been through the crappy rechargeable drill battery problem as well. My old craftsman cordless drills went for over 10 years of regular and nearly daily use before the batterys just wore out. The new ones make it about 1 year regardless of heavy use or no use at all before they lose their output capacity. They dont go dead but rather just get weak and contunue to run weak for some time before they actualy go dead. The old ones ran at near full output right up to the last watt then dropped off.

My solution to the rebuild issue is to go and buy the cheap low buck generic battery packs at the local home supply center and use them as the cell doners. An 18 volt battery for $14.99 works just as long as the $69.99 battery for the big brand cordless tool. So far I have also unfortunatly found many big name brand tools using the exact same cheapo cells in their battery as what I get from the cheapo generic battery packs. So aprantly your paying $55 more to have the same cells put into a different physical arangement to fit inside a different case shape?

And speaking of crap that doent work, when is this site going to get a spell check system that doesnt hang or stall out if a post is more than a paragraph long? I like the site but I really dont care for the spell check system.

Battery packs: Suggesting grabbing a cheapie from (Harbor Freight?) is a good suggestion, but one can't really discern what is in them. Between what I've got I do know that I need "C" cells and also "4/5th C" sizes. I'll maybe end up doing that: by guess and by golly.

I've got a Hewlett-Packard AC voltmeter where the nicads lasted for well over 20 years. Probably mfr'd in the US. A hint?

Yes, agreed. The CR4 spell checker does has room for improvement!

As far as Homelite, I have a old homelite chainsaw that was built inthe 1970's and it still runs well and has out lasted several of its newer homelite replacements

That design changed very little, and for us sawed alot of wood for us. We would pick up like new saws that weekend wood warriors would buy, until they found out it was work and they decided it cheaper to have the work done for them. and that would be McCoulach....can recall spelling, but I believe it was the same as Poulan

After 20 + years, of use, we went to Stihl, we actually upgraded, (A 041 purchase we bought from a weekend wood warrior Chain went dull, and he didn't know it, still on its first tank of gas, we did him a favor other wise he would have hurt himself)

Anyways we had more power, and less vibration, it was unbelievable. But after 3 years of relativly heavy sawing the antivibration on it put the stresses and cracked brackets to the handle.

I would not call the Homelite an industrial or heavy duty commercial chainsaw, But the homelite is your basic saw, If you try making a living with it logging and you better have good insurance.

And if you do but cheap such as items Harbor freight......consider it as a consumable

I have also done this, because any tool is better than no tool. But you will not hear be bitching about quality. actual I am slightly impressed, just bought a nice U.S. General tool box for $265.00 (yes that right) and a hydraulic knock-out punch for $65.00 (both on sale) the knock-out punch is simuliar to the Greenlee that is 4-5 times the price and so far I am very satisfied.

No complaints about CHINA quality.......^{I wonder if thats lead based paint though}.

p911

Being the basic homelite designs didn't change for that model is why it is still around. The replacement ones where bought because the clutch and bar wore out on the original.

The first replacement saws engine gave up after one good year of small limb work for firewood. Then it donated its bar and clutch to the old one until the old one sprung the clutch and bar again. Then the second replacement did the same repeat of the first.

Now I have a 22 inch Stihl. I still have not wore out the engine in five years as of yet but its been through two bars, two clutches and too many chains.

My nephew he's 21 years old now, always building something, but didn't have the money for good tools of his own. We had, plenty on the farm (I should say mostly my brothers farm now) I bought him a gift card from Harbor Freight as well as tools such as sand blaster and things like that for his birthday and Christmas since he was 15.

He bought a 4 1/2" grinder from HF.....piece of crap, but he was proud of his tools and that was what he could afford. I was doing some work there helping him, I set it down, and got my Milwaukee. When I left that Monday, he went through all of his cut-off wheels and mine also as well as (4) of my Grinder wheels.

He knew the difference.

But some of the stuff he built with some of those POS tools. there is a different between a High Quality Craftsman with crappy Tools and a poor Craftsman with top of the line tools. Can't wait for him to afford high quality tools.

Good starter tools I guess especially when money is tight on the farm because when those POS tools fails he takes it hard.

But maybe I have gotten too suspicious in my old age...

no, just wiser.......

I'm changing this to on topic

have a good day cwarner7_11

p911

"there is a different between a High Quality Craftsman with crappy Tools and a poor Craftsman with top of the line tools." An absolute truth...

Quote from Wikipedia: "Planned obsolescence or built-in obsolescence^[1] is the process of a product becoming obsolete and/or non-functional after a certain period or amount of use in a way that is planned or designed by the manufacturer.^[1] Planned obsolescence has potential benefits for a producer because the product fails and the consumer is under pressure to purchase again, whether from the same manufacturer (a replacement part or a newer model), or from a competitor which might also rely on planned obsolescence. ^[1] The purpose of planned obsolescence is to hide the real cost per use from the consumer, and charge a higher price than they would otherwise be willing to pay (or would be unwilling to spend all at once).

For an industry, planned obsolescence stimulates demand by encouraging purchasers to buy again sooner if they still want a functioning product. Built-in obsolescence is in many different products, from vehicles to light bulbs, from buildings to proprietary software. There is, however, the potential backlash of consumers who learn that the manufacturer invested money to make the product obsolete faster; such consumers might turn to a producer (if any exists) that offers a more durable alternative.

Planned obsolescence was first developed in the 1920s and 1930s when mass production had opened every minute aspect of the production process to exacting analysis.^{[citation needed]}

Estimates of planned obsolescence can influence a company's decisions about product engineering. Therefore the company can use the least expensive components that satisfy product lifetime projections. Such decisions are part of a broader discipline known as value engineering.

The use of planned obsolescence is not always easy to pinpoint, and it is complicated by related problems, such as competing technologies or creeping featurism which expands functionality in newer product versions."

Apparently from the late 20's to the present, "planned obsolescence" (PO) has become the major concern for manufacturers. Not just consumer goods; but also commercial and military goods. Prior to the 20's, consumers expected goods to last a long time, but it soon became evident that unless a product broke or became unusable, companies couldn't make money. Tools, farming implements and power machinery in particular were made to last a long time. I can remember items such as kitchen stoves and refrigerators lasting well into the 21^st century. Durable goods are those designed to last 3 or more years, but I don't see that happening any more. Are manufacturers speeding up the PO process? I've bought items that were supposed to last 3 or more years only to have them fail within a year. Is "durable goods" a phrase that is joining "made-to-last"? Computer software is another area where PO is a big issue.

I can understand that manufacturers must design with PO in mind in order to stay in business, but I think they let greed rule them in the form of excessive profits and corporative salaries. I just can't see a CEO getting multi-millions. His life style is way out of proportion with the rest of the world. 10x or even 100x an average wage earner, but not 100,000 times.

Thanks! A good come back to what I babbled about: marketing. Understood, and where instrumental in generating ongoing business and jobs. But my point is: why should the product be of lesser quality.

So, onward we go . . .

Competition, lower production costs, less quality control, inflation coupled with corporate greed results in lesser product quality.

corporate greed

one has to be careful about that label. They the Corporations are managed to stay in business.

Some is corporate greed.....some good business sense.

But my point is: why should the product be of lesser quality.

Because the consumers today don't boycott they just accept it...where as in the past consumers would let it rot on the shelf and do without rather than accept junk.

Your Homelite product is nowadays at the cheap end of the market so you can not expect the performance you might have had of the earlier product, they are not the same thing any more.

They are produced in China and the parts are manufactured by various small engineering shops, assembly is probably made by an non engineering company therefore quality control is not a strong point. If a cheaper part manufacturer is found the more expensive one is dropped so quality and material specifications are or can be fudged etc.

You get what you pay for they are always looking for ways to save production costs this is reflected in the amount of material used to make a part to be less & less which compromises its longevity.

So far as batteries go be wary of Lion packs they are good size wise compared to Ni Cads but have finicky charging circuits and are difficult to repair. Stick to NiMH cells these can be repaired and or rejuvenated and will give you a good run for your money. But dont use cheap low capacity cells.

I am in complete agreement. I received a ridgid drill with 2 batterys and a life time guarntee not only on the drill but also the batteries. one battery went south after 1 year. the second battery still holds a charge but not for long. tried to get batteries replaced but to my surprise you need to send everything into a repair shop i.e. charger, drill and batteries so they can check. no problem if you live near a repair facility but I don,t. therein lies the problem. You need to jump thru to many hoops to get the guarntee. oh the tool was purchased at home depot but they don,t provide repair service.

oilcan13

If I ever have to put in a claim on a warranty, I chalk it up to poor quality judgement on my part. I don't recall ever having considered warranty terms in a purchase (except for automobiles and houses), because I don't normally expect to have to use one.

I chalk it up to poor quality judgement on my part.

ah, bad personal quality control and personal greed. but, I trust an honest man.

I do the similar, expect one time I purchase an Nanao computer Monitor back in the late eighties. after a month it went blank. since I paid a hefty sum for it....can't remember. I sent it in to California to get fixed. I thought I got screwed. but it was a horizontal chip they replaced or replaced the monitor. I don't know. but I got it back 4-5 weeks later. worked until I threw it out a few years ago to make room.

Otherwise, warranty or not. if I had my use out of it and I have to sent it in. I'll buy another one unless there is an exchange. Did that at homedepot and craftsman a couple of times. never had a problem, Until one type of husky air tool with a lifetime warranty, but the replacement Home Depot offered, only had (3) years warranty, because they did not carry that model anymore. But they did offer to "upgrade" to the current model that had a lifetime for a price differential. It was a better air tool but it did P.O.'ed me at the time. I walked out, and then return a week later and exchange for the upgrade.

Only because I had purchased 4 of the same air tools for my shop, which received heavy use. and returned each atleast 2-4 times on each, because more than likely, the fabricators that used them at the shop and some of the jokers by-passed the regulated air and were running on live air 100-125 PSI.

After I questioned them and found out, I did not deserve replacements. But received them anyways. If I had known, I would have addressed the problem in the shop, but people have a tendecies to blame the tool, and not the piss poor operator that does not know how to use it.

p911

In general you get what you pay for. Yesterday I was talking to a friend who works in a vacuum cleaner store. A local not franchised. He showed me a Meile, I believe that spelling is close. About $700* but basically is a LIFETIME PURCHASE. He told me so many stories about its quality and performance. Made in Germany. So you can find quality products you just have to look for them. I worked for Homelite as a Manufacturing Engineer in 1960, we made punps, generators and an outboard motor. It was a disaster.

Guest

It is misleading to state that "you always get what you pay for". There are unscrupulous companies out there (HP comes to mind) that charge for their name, not for their quality. Check quality comparisons between HP and ASUS or Toshiba- you normally pay a price premium for an HP over an ASUS- chances are, the guts of these different makes come from very similar (if not the same) production shops, but ASUS seems much more consciencious when it comes to quality control...

29 years ago I bought a 18" chain saw from Sears. Did everything well and was light weight to boot. Unfortunately after hurricane Floyd came through we lost two of our big trees in front of our house. They fell across our property and landed on our neighbors lawn who was getting married that weekend. Started sawing everything off his property so as to allow passage for his friends and family for the event. Worked great until I got to the trunks on my property. Even cutting all the way around the trunk, I still had 6 inches of log holding the middle together. Sears had a larger saw but it felt like cr*p and the cover plate fell off while inspecting it at the store. I went home and figured I'd use a handsaw to finish the job. My neighbor in appreciation for cleaning up his yard presented me with a big new Stihl when I got home. Loved the new saw and how it cuts. My little sears is still in service when I want to cut roots or may come in contact with dirt or rocks. Beats the hell out of the bar and chain but saves the big one from unwanted wear and tear. I don't think the new Sears saw was anyway near the quality of the older one after inspecting it. But the old one was a workhorse.

The problem for the consumer lies in defining the level of quality in competing versions of the products on the market. Sources of info are Consumers Report, magazines (wood working, auto hobbyists, etc.), and online discussions/blogs. However, a lot of that is personal opinion (uncalibrated and not supported by independent evaluations), suspect input influenced by economics (manufacturer pay offs), and limited sample size or number of different items tested. For the individual it is usually economically infeasible to buy and test a large sample to determine relative quality. As has been pointed out, warranty coverage is no guarantee of protection/durability. A case in point: I recently bought a brand name surge protector that had gotten good reviews in a reputable electronics magazine. The first one failed within 24 hours due to a blown MOV - I know because I took the unit apart to see what failed. I contacted the manufacturer's warranty department and they sent me a replacement (no charge and I was told to keep the failed unit). I plugged the replacement unit in with no load for a week to let it burn in, then I hooked it up to the TV, DVD/VCR, cable converter box, and modem. Within 24 hours the replacement unit failed in the same way - a cooked MOV. In both cases there were no power surges. Contacted the manufacturer and they again provided a replacement at no charge. So far that one hasn't failed but I am constantly on alert for the acrid smell of a fried electronic component. It goes without saying that all three surge suppressors were made in China and presumably all the components including the failed MOVs were too. Unless the manufacturer is counting on the vast majority of people who buy their products to not to pursue replacements for failed units, how can they sustain such failure rates (I am assuming that my experience is not unique)? It would be intersting to know how their quality assurance testing (if any) is set up and what failure rates are accepted.

mechanics illustrated always had a power tool ratings round up. unfortunatly I looked at it to see what my past purchases were rated.

usually in the top.....rarely #1 though, but #1 to me.

It think the line between consumer and commercial has blurred, and in some cases some brands have suffered. Delta comes to mind: they used to make some good table saws, and perhaps they still do, but the cheap ones dominate the shelves in places like Home Depot, so when I think Delta, I now think (mainly) junk. Milwaukee seems to be building more consumer grade stuff also, and its brand may suffer -- although I hope not.

Skill may be the classic case of this: they continue to turn out a good worm drive saw, but much (most?) of their stuff is junk. When I look for a new circular saw, I doubt that I will consider Skill, because their brand has been diluted -- how is a buyer to know whether this is the good stuff or the cheap stuff?

I just bought a Dewalt 12" miter saw. It's compound, single bevel, and appears solid as a rock. (I'd rather have a simple, reliable saw than one with more features.) I could have bought a more versatile Ryobi slide saw for $100 less, but the slides added flex that could be felt in the store, and I have always been happy with Dewalt tools. Over the years, they seem to have maintained their level of quality pretty well. To Black and Decker's credit, I suppose, Dewalt and Porter-Cable seem to be of consistently good quality. (Black and Decker, itself, doesn't impress me as a power tool brand.)

I have a few old Craftsmen brand hand tools (such as wrenches) but have always preferred Snap-On, and have been willing to pay a premium for them. I've been generally disappointed with Craftsmen power tools -- I imagine there are a few pretty good ones, but the brand alone doesn't tell you that.

I recently bought a Chinese power hack saw from Northern Equipment, and have been very well impressed. It was half the price of a Hitachi (another brand which seems to be drifting toward lower quality -- and in this case, the housings of the Hitachi and the "off brand" were identical) and just keeps cutting and cutting. If it explodes tomorrow, I will have received far more than my money's worth. Had I realized how much I would use this tool, I would have brought a "quality" brand... but as it happens, I seem to have stumbled on a good product. If I wanted another tool from the same manufacturer, I'd have no way of knowing where to get one, because it is not sold under the manufacturer's name.

I theorize that a bunch of MBA types understand the superfluous end of "branding" but do not understand the value of real branding: backing up the brand with solid quality throughout the product line. I've removed many brands from my list of good stuff, because so many seem to be trading on the history of one or two good products (or a brief run of good products). With Craftsmen power tools, for instance, I can't be bothered to attempt to figure out who really makes a particular unit, and I've had enough bad experiences with their tools to know to avoid them altogether.

Of course the old adage still applies; you get what you pay for. Although I frequently whine about bad-quality products, many consumer grade products work well for their intended purpose. I have a Poulan chain saw that was cheap, and it has worked flawlessly, having carved up several complete moderately large trees. The next time I use it, I expect it will need some attention from the long storage, not from a basic lack of quality.

It comes down to when you are looking for a tool, if you have any experience, take the damn thing out of the package...look at it, feel it, ..... your can't necessarily try it, but if you know of someone that has one, great check that out. Or after you bought it, you'll know with you first impressions after you plug it in and try it. take it back or keep it.

It comes down to the consumer for that decision.

One thing you have to give harbor freight credit....the openingly post recall notices

notice brand names.....batteries, but still brand names

In my life time I have seen many brands of tools have extreme ranges of quality issues.

I still have and buy mostly Craftsman hand tools but I also have number of off brand and cheapo Chinese ones that I abuse without problems as well. The screwdrivers get the ends busted off the most and I tend to explode the occasional 1/2" drive sockets when using the 1 1/4 inch spline drive super impact gun now and then but over all my hand tools seem to hold up well. Lossage out numbers breakage in my applications.

As far as the my Craftsman power tools I have had good overall results with most of them. But then I bought the higher priced ones too. My two Craftsman Cordless drills have put in over 12 years of regular abuse and are still going. The first batteries lasted about ten years but after that I cant find replacement cells that can put in the same service for more than 6 months to a year without them failing now.

I had a 3/8 craftsman pro series corded drill I abused for about 6 years without problems but one day it just disappeared and never was seen again. Its probably still working for whom ever took it.

I also have a Craftsman commercial series worm drive circular saw that I used daily for several years mainly as a pallet cutter for my firewood. I bought it brand new and paid the extra $30 for the 2 year unconditional warranty and told the clerk I will see you for a new one in a year. It made it about 3 months until the weather dropped below -20 F and the thick gear oil the factory used smoked the motor one day. I took it back and they gave me a brand new one. As soon as I got home I changed the factory gear oil out for full synthetic and have used it without problems ever since!

Now I have a comercial 12" AEG chop saw with a carbide demolition blade on it for cutting pallets. Its abused and neglected but takes it well. The 23 amp motor is super being it pops the breakers before it ever get worked hard enough to damage itself! I wish I could find a dealer that sells the high amp rated AEG stuff in the USA.

Now if this web site could find a spell check that handles more than two paragraphs that would be something worth braging about as well.