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Commentator

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Induction Generator

01/20/2010 5:47 PM

Can any one tell me how to convert a 2.2 KW star connected induction motor into induction generator by putting capacitor? (I have already converted a 2.2KW Delta connected induction motor into Induction generator by putting 50mfd capacitor and it's working nicely)

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#1

Re: Induction Generator

01/20/2010 8:11 PM

Did you tried doing the same thing to the other one?

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Induction Generator

01/21/2010 7:23 AM

No. Because I don't know that how to connect the capacitor in Star connection.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Induction Generator

01/21/2010 10:37 AM

a) How is the capacitor connected on the delta motor?

b) If all 6 leads are brought out into the terminal box you can connect it star or delta.

Cheers.......Codey

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Commentator

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#8
In reply to #3

Re: Induction Generator

01/22/2010 9:37 AM

Dear Codemaster pl. refer below link : http://www.who.int/management/InductionGenerators%20forSmallHydroSchemes.pdf in this way i have connected capacitors. C2= 100 mfd, C1= 50 mfd

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#4

Re: Induction Generator

01/22/2010 2:34 AM

Dear all,

An Induction motor, nomally running below the syncronous speed, becomes an induction generator if it runs higher than the synchronous speed. No need to change connection and no need to add capacitance.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Induction Generator

01/22/2010 5:17 AM

This is only correct, if the induction motor has a place to get its reactive energy.

  • If the generator is connected to the main supply grid, then the reactive energy comes from the grid.
  • If the generator is used as a stand-alone unit, you surely will need capacitors to deliver your reactive energy.

You have to put as much capacitors to fully compensate your reactive energy as in the case the generator should run as a normal motor.

  • capacitor size = nominal motor current x nominal motor voltage x sinus (angle of cosinus phi)

Best performace you get when you use only ONE phase of the three phase induction motor to generate power. The two other phases are used to maintain the rotating magnetic field in the motor

Induction motor and capacitors can both be in star or in delta, or one in star and the other in delta. The only thing to take care of is the working voltage of the capacitors and the total capacity of the capacitors.

The total capacity of the capacitors

  • equals to I x U x sqrt (3)
  • equals to U x 2 x ∏ x frequency x U x sqrt (3)

this means that if the capacitors are connected in delta, the voltage over each capacitor will be bigger and the total capacity of the three capacitors will be bigger.

Practically this means you can use smalller ( = cheaper) capacitors.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Induction Generator

01/22/2010 9:35 AM

Dear rudy.leurs@telenet.be, Thanks for your reply. I could not get the formula, capacitor size = nominal motor current x nominal motor voltage x sinus (angle of cosinus phi) My motor details are as below: 2.2kW/240V in Delta/8.4 A/ p.f.=0.84 capacitor size = 8.4 x 240 x 0.84 = 1693 ????? also I could not get, The total capacity of the capacitors equals to I x U x sqrt (3) equals to U x 2 x ∏ x frequency x U x sqrt (3) Can u please explain me in detail. further, pl. refer below link: http://www.who.int/management/InductionGenerators%20forSmallHydroSchemes.pdf I have connected my induction generator in this way. But still I am confused for capacitor selection.

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Induction Generator

01/22/2010 10:29 AM

Calculating the reactive power required to compensate the motor reactive power

  • 1) three phase motor in delta, I nominal = 8.4 A, U nominal = 240V, PF = 0.84
    • Power = sqrt(3) x I x U = 1.73 x 8.4 x 240 x 3492 VA
  • 2) PF = 0.84
    • cos2 α + sin2 α = 1 thus sin α = sqrt ( 1 - cos2 α)
    • or sin α = sqrt ( 1 - 0.842) = 0.5425
  • 3) P x sin α = 3492 x 0.5425 = 1895 VA reactive

This is the amount of reactive energy you need to compensate the motors magnetic field building.

Capacitor selecting

1) three capacitors in delta,

  • - working voltage capacitor = 240 Volt
  • - for the three capacitors together
    • P = 3 x I x U = 3 x U2 /Z = 3 x U2 x 2 x ∏ x frequency x size capacitor
    • or size capacitor = P / 3 x U2 x 2 x ∏ x frequency
    • or size capacitor = 1895 / 3 x 240 x 240 x 2 x 3.1415 x 50 = 0.0000349 Farad or 34.9 micro farad
  • this means using 3 capacitors 35 uF each connected in delta

2) three capacitors in star,

  • - working voltage capacitor = 240 / sqrt (3) = 139 Volt
  • - for the three capacitors together
    • P = 3 x I x U = 3 x U2 /Z = 3 x U2 x 2 x ∏ x frequency x size capacitor
    • or size capacitor = P / 3 x U2 x 2 x ∏ x frequency
    • or size capacitor = 1895 / 3 x 138 x 138 x 2 x 3.1415 x 50 = 0.0001056 Farad or 106 micro farad
  • this means using 3 capacitors 106 uF each connected in star

Be sure to use only capacitor that can be connected continously (not using motor starting capacitors)

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#12
In reply to #9

Re: Induction Generator

02/17/2010 10:15 AM

I have not yet tried any induction motor to generator conversion, but was curious and I am still learning. I realize that a 3 phase induction motor is more eficient, but at the current time I just have a single phase 110 volt motor I would like to experiment with. The motor is a 1/6 hp 60 hz 5.3 amp single phase motor. What size run capacitor would I use for this application and how do you calculate it?

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Induction Generator

02/18/2010 5:12 AM

Do not use this motor. It is to small, the wire diameter is to thin. THis means that the internal resistance of the windings is to big. If you use this motor as generator, the voltage drop over these windings will be hugh. This means the voltage variation with load and no-load will be big.

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#10
In reply to #5

Re: Induction Generator

01/24/2010 4:02 PM

I am sure that an asynchronous motor-alternator the stator windings of which are not connected to a main supply grid will not start producing any voltage when rotated at any speed, because there is not any field excitation.

Maybe if there is a remnant magnetic field, it could be.

If the stator windings were fed, for instance from a battery pack through a converter DC to AC, at a given frequency, the machine will start as a motor and if a mover turns it at a speed higher than the synchronous speed of the converter, the motor will work as a generator. Then the capacitors, duly connected, will improve the Power Factor, when the load demands it.

This is may experience, but I am ready to study any other explanation.

Arturo

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#6

Re: Induction Generator

01/22/2010 7:38 AM

When you apply the 50mfd cap to the delta winding, you are adding capacitance to all 3 windings and allowing self excitation to occur.2 of the phases are selfexcited to act together and one is against. In a star connection, one capacitor will only excite one phase if phase/neutral connected, or 2 phases if star/star connected, and in this case, it may be that the excitation of one phase will be working against the excitation applied to the other. I would try using 2 capacitors in phase/neutral connection or phase/phase connection.

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#11
In reply to #6

Re: Induction Generator

02/13/2010 7:58 AM

Dear Guest, Can u please provide me the drawing of the connection?

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#14

Re: Induction Generator

02/18/2010 6:35 AM

I realize that the single phase motor for a generator is not realistic for use, but I was curious to try it. Maybe even for like a science project. Is there an existing formula to calculate the capacitance needed? I am currently trying to get my hands on a 3 phase induction motor to play with, but at the current time the single phase can be just a project to learn more about this stuff. I have also heard different stories about using an automotive alternator to generate 110 volts, that I would also like to try. Most of the stories were not good. I have a GM Delco alternator like 100 or 140 amp or so that I again would like to just experiment with. Any of you guys had and experience with this? I read an article where a guy used one tied the field wire to the output and ran the alternator between 8000 and 10,000 rpm and would produce 110 volts at 15 amps. He also had to do some modification inside maybe with the rectifier or diodes to convert the output from DC to AC. He stated that the bearing would only typically last for 400-600 hours though. He powered this with a 5 hp lawn mower engine. Any thoughts?

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#15

Re: Induction Generator

02/18/2010 9:55 PM

What kind of output voltage do most people here shoot for. I am really just interested in 110 volt that would be useful in home during a power outage. Really just to operate couple of lights or maybe even freezer. Some people i gather configure to 220v

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#16

Re: Induction Generator

02/18/2010 10:09 PM

Ok i got cut short on last post..sorry! I assume the people using the higher voltage are like in Europe or they are using a step down transformer. Can anyone answer this? I am currently searching for a 3 phase induction motor, but I am trying to learn the

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#17

Re: Induction Generator

02/18/2010 10:17 PM

Im trying to learn the math associated with findind the capacitor size I will need for the 110 v output. The example in the post above is great, but I need coaching. I never took calculas or what ever that is. I am eager to learn that equation though!

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#18

Re: Induction Generator

02/18/2010 10:30 PM

Ok my mobile internet limits my text field size..sorry! I was also wondering whether delta or wye connection is preffered for that 110 vac output. I would like to use an induction motor as an attachment to my 25 hp riding mower for a small backup power.

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#19

Re: Induction Generator

02/20/2010 10:26 AM

Ok I figured out how to do the calculations, but was curious if I want 110 vac output do I use 115 for my voltage and 4 amp calculations, say on a 230/480 v 2/1 amp motor? Half the voltage double the amps. How is the output voltage determined?

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#20

Re: Induction Generator

02/20/2010 10:42 AM

Also the example motor spec plate didn,t show the pf, well it showed the pf as 63%. So is that .63 pf? The motor is 230/480v 2/1 amps, 3 phase, pf 63%, 1/2 hp. I know its really small. I,m just trying to learn the calcutions.

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#21

Re: Induction Generator

03/05/2010 10:35 AM

Does anyone ever respond to this thread?

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