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Join Date: Jan 2010
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gyros for segways

01/28/2010 10:01 PM

The old toy gyroscope, you pulled a string and the wheel spun, and it stood up. I thought this was the way that the Segway worked, but have found out otherwise. Is the gyro used in any type of vehicle to actually create stability? If not, why not? Thank you!

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#1

Re: gyros for segways

01/29/2010 10:40 PM

In a single word, Bearings. As soon as you get a big enough mass to be of any help, the bearings become overstressed. The U.S. Navy attempted to use gyros to stabilize the first 4 Polaris missile submarines. Bearing failure was a big problem. Made a nice storage area when they removed the gyros early in the program.

Second word, Precession. You cannot always easily make turn when the gyro is running. Ask any WWI pilot you can find who flew behind rotary engines. Big problem there, too.

Segways probably use accelerometers and a microprocessor to dynamically maintain balance in the fore and aft directions.

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#9
In reply to #1

Re: gyros for segways

02/01/2010 10:07 AM

Segway most likely uses "solid state" gyroscopes such as those commercialized by Freescale, Analog Devices... Those are generally refered to as MEMS or piezo electric gyros (thus the "solid state" experession is not entirely true). Other gyros that I suspect would be too costly for the Segway are optical gyros (laser or fiber optic, the later being known as FOG for Fiber Optic Gyros). Googling MEMS or FOG should provide more insights. I have just checked and Analog Devices offers MEMS Gyros combined with accelerometers in a single package.

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#2

Re: gyros for segways

01/29/2010 11:52 PM

Motorcycles and bicycles gain some stability (and controllablity) from gyroscopic effects. If the motorcycle is counter steered to enter a turn, the gyroscopic precession aids the banking effect that comes from steering the road wheel out from under the bikes CG.

But otherwise, there are not a lot of vehicles in which the traits of a gyro are helpful enough to warrant dealing with their unwanted effects (such as a change in pitch producing a yaw force).

Of course gyros are used as references in autopilots and for inertial navigation, but not directly to stabilize an airplane.

You may find these links interesting:

Gyro stabilized monorail

Gyro stabilized cars

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#3

Re: gyros for segways

01/30/2010 12:54 AM

Hi,

there was a bus for passenger transportation in Switzerland (late 50ies or early 60ies) that used big momentum-wheels with vertical axis for energy recovery and spin-up at halts. (No gimbals to decouple the axis of the momentum-wheel from the bus roll-pitch-yaw axis.)

This gave a a very peculiar movement: if the street changed its slope then either the front or the rear nearly remained for a short time in air and at the same time there was a severe roll to left or right depending on the sign of the change of slope.

So this first simple (one wheel) approach was quickly abandoned and a two wheel trial started: counter-rotating wheels do generate only internal forces.

This did no longer lay the busses flat on left or right side but quickly damaged the bearings.

To calculate:

Calculate the angular momentum H. That is the product of the moment of inertia Jz (that is pointing along the spin-axis z) and the spin-speed ωz in rad/second. (Jz to be measured in Nms Newton*meter*second). Spin axis = rotation-axis.

If you put a rate of turn on this (perpendicular to the spin axis), symbol is ωp, p for precession-rate: then there is a resulting torque T that equals H*ωp.

This torque is perpendicular to ωz and ωp.

Torque and precession rate may be interchanged.

This is the principle of any "rate of turn" gyro.

If ωz, ωp and H are not perpendicular to each other then a vectorial calculation will be necessary.

RHABE

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Anonymous Poster
#4

Re: gyros for segways

01/30/2010 1:50 AM

wherehave all the horsheshoe magnets and ironfilings patterns for the kids gone?

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#5

Re: gyros for segways

01/30/2010 10:17 AM

take a look at this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segway_PT

hope it helps

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#6

Re: gyros for segways

01/30/2010 12:18 PM

I believe they are used for ship stabilization. Gyroscopes are really only used as orientation sensors and do not supply the force to stabilize the vehicle.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: gyros for segways

01/30/2010 1:17 PM

They stabilize ships with small 'wings' called stabilizers that are controlled to counter the roll.

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#8

Re: gyros for segways

02/01/2010 9:41 AM

Gyros were used for many years in ocean-going vessels to provide stability. Photos and description of one example can be found here. They have mainly been replaced in civilian vessels by stabilizer pods.

Large surface warships used gyroscopes during broadside bombardment to mitigate the roll effect due to simultaneous firing of multiple large-bore guns. With the advent of self-propelled ordnance such as surface to air missiles and cruise missiles, the big guns are mostly obsolete, and the need for gyro stabilization has disappeared.

Also, some private yacht manufacturers offer gyro stabilization to provide a stable living space while at anchor.

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