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Radar-Guided Rifle

02/05/2010 1:01 PM

We all know that a magnetic field can deflect an electron beam (CRT) and steel can be attracted/repelled by a magnet. What do you think of this idea?

A rifle fitted with electronics that will transmit and receive a signal/beam that in turn will be applied as a magnetic field to a non-magnetic barrel extension to deflect the projectile resulting in a homing in on the target. I don't know if a speeding bullet can be deflected by a magnetic field.

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#1

Re: Radar guided rifle

02/05/2010 2:31 PM

Well, let's take 3200 FPS as the muzzle velocity, assume that your target is 500 yards away. That's a reach for an AR-15, but that's ok. That gives you two seconds to alter the bullet path.

How long will the " non-magnetic barrel extension" be?

Now, about cad on laptops. I put AutoCad on my laptop when I was learning to use it. Obviously the small screen will be a problem for shop use, but ......................

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Radar guided rifle

02/05/2010 3:00 PM

I could zoom a detail to fill the screen.

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: Radar guided rifle

02/05/2010 7:14 PM

Dadburn kids and your toys! Git yerself an '03 Springfield and you won't need any correction doodads out to better'n 1000 yards. Everbody knows .22s is fer shooting rats. Hmph!

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Radar guided rifle

02/06/2010 4:58 AM

What's wrong with a nice, fat 0.5 Barrett ?

A complementary radar-informed spotter on the side, is just fine

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#4

Re: Radar-Guided Rifle

02/05/2010 8:25 PM

Nope, not gonna happen. First an electron beam has very little mass and very high electrostatic charge for its mass. The force on the electron is determined by the Lorentz Force equation, F=q( v x B ). So applying Newtons Law of motion to this one gets m a = q( v x B ).

Now a bullet is a neutrally charged particle, so the Lorentz Force equation does not directly apply. Instead one must use instead the classic force between two magnetic pole equation of

This more complicated equation does derive from the Lorentz Force equation and will require more spatial mechanics to accurately prove my point. So let me put this in another perspective.

Most bullets are made of non-magnetic material like lead. So a magnetic field will have just as much a force moving the air around the bullet as moving the bullet itself. The copper of a jacketed bullet will have slightly less permeability than air. Now one molecule of Nitrogen has a mass of about 23E-27 kg. One electron has almost 10E-30 kg. Lastly a light weight 30.06 bullet weighs 3E-3 kg. Granted the electron beam will be moving close to the speed of light, 3E8 m/s. The 30.06 bullet has a nominal muzzle velocity of 7E2 m/s. The vastly larger 27 orders of magnitude more mass the bullet has over the electron quickly swamps out the 6 orders of magnitude difference of velocity. The momentum difference makes direct magnetic steering of a bullet impossible.

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#6
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Re: Radar-Guided Rifle

02/06/2010 12:10 PM

Thanks Fred. You kind of lost me with the explanation, but I'm sure you know more about this than I.

My thoughts on the subject were: a projectile made of steel with a sabot(similar to the shells for a 16" gun on a battleship); A short rifled barrel and an extension extending from the muzzle which contains the deflection coils.

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#7

Re: Radar-Guided Rifle

02/07/2010 2:19 PM

Guiding can be done by measuring the error in the bullet trajectory (by radar/laser), and then applying a correction to an ordinary rifle barrel for the next shot (using gyros, accelerometers and push/pulling weights against the barrel tip).
I see the hard part as fixing a target in space-time so the software can compare the bullet vector to the moving target and compute a correction.
Perhaps the same hardware could track the target and the bullets. You just put a shallow 3-corner microwave/optical reflector grating on the back of the bullets to track them, and use interferometry/Doppler for measurement.
A Sony PlayStation3 might have almost enough processing power to strike the firing pin for you when the barrel is coming into alignment for another shot.
...I think this is already invented: an antiaircraft/antimissile rapid-fire cannon used on naval vessels. It sure isn't handheld.

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#8
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Re: Radar-Guided Rifle

02/07/2010 5:57 PM

good stuff! GA.

but if you are going to use laser tracking on a bullet, why can't you use laser guidance and a 2-piece bullet to permit adjustment of trajectory (one part spin/mass/explosive, one part steer/communicate/trigger)

In today's world of micro manufacturing, this is really just a fast moving small missile.

Here are some ideas... a 3 part bullet I guess, as a "parachuting pusher plug" will be required to get the shell out of the barrell of the gun, but then to parachute harmlessly out of the way. The tail of the shell has a highly engineered connection to the head of the shell, and allows the head to spin freely (jewel bearing?) but can deflect it's own axis from the head, thus giving the ability to steer. The laser signals are received from the targeting system. The bullet itself could be tracked by laser reflection or by laser pulse from the tail. Another potential idea is to make the shell tail an solid rocket.

anyway.. its just a hypothetical idea.

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#9

Re: Radar-Guided Rifle

02/08/2010 10:06 AM

This was sort of covered by myth busters:

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#10

Re: Radar-Guided Rifle

02/09/2010 11:01 PM

A rifle is an extremely simple device, which in the hands of a well trained marksman is capable of accuracy in accordance with it's capabilities. For example, in the hands of a master, an M16/AR15 can reliably hit targets out to 400 meters. That same man with a scope-sighted 7mm Remington magnum can hit his target out to 800 meters. Give him something like a .338 Lapua and he will be able to hit targets in excess of 1000 meters and with a Barret in .50BMG as much as 2000 meters. Men so equipped on their home turf can make life very, very uncomfortable for invading armies, which is why Switzerland has never been successfully invaded.

However, as has already been stated in this thread, there is no way to use electromagnetic fields do alter the course of a bullet, and adding radar to a rifle has two massive disadvantages. One, in that it adds tremendous complexity to what is otherwise a very simple and reliable device. Secondly, it becomes a beacon to anyone equipped to detect it. This must argue heavily against the idea.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Radar-Guided Rifle

02/09/2010 11:21 PM

Well put and a GA. Much more poignant than my confusing physics.

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#12

Re: Radar-Guided Rifle

02/11/2010 10:14 PM

A little bit of "rifle-ology", for anyone who actually cares.

The capabilities of a rifle are of two categories, one being it's range, the other it's accuracy.

Range depends upon two factors, the muzzle velocity, and the ballistic coefficient of the projectile. Muzzle velocity is pretty obvious, the faster a bullet leaves the weapon, the further it'll carry, all things being equal, which they aren't.

Ballistic coefficient is the measure of how well a bullet slips through the air, which translates to how well it bucks the wind and maintains velocity. Longer, heavier bullets, having higher ballistic coefficient, tend to travel further for a given muzzle velocity. They also tend to be more accurate.

So, a .22 caliber bullet weighing 55 grains with a muzzle velocity of 3300fps (5.56mm, 3.73gm, 1000mps) will carry out to 400 meters before it simply runs out of energy. A .338 caliber bullet of 250 grains (8.59mm, 16.2gm) with the same muzzle velocity on the other hand will still have significant energy at around 1200 meters. This is why the big (really big) naval guns can accurately hit targets 40 km away.

The other factor is inherent accuracy. When a rifle discharges, the steel barrel vibrates like a tuning fork. The more precisely a cartridge load is matched to the rifle, the more accurate the rifle, since the bullet leaves the muzzle closer to the exact same point in the oscillation cycle of the barrel. And of course some barrels vibrate less than others. Most long-range weapons have very heavy barrels for this reason, and barrels heavily wrapped in carbon fiber are acoustically dead, or very nearly so.

Accuracy is measured in minutes of arc. This is determined by clamping a test weapon into a stand and firing groups of three to 5 shots at a target 100 meters away. If the shots all fall within a 1 inch circle, the weapon has 1 minute accuracy, which is considered to be reasonable accuracy for most purposes. But at 400 meters, this group will open to 4 inches, and 1000 meters, 10 inches. Obviously, for long-range weapons, greater accuracy is desirable. The most accurate weapons can achieve close to 0.1 minute accuracy at 1000 meters.

The rest is in the hands of the rifleman.

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