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Motor Poles and Maximum Efficiency

02/16/2010 3:04 PM

The load is a positive displacement pump (constant torque load)

The operation speed is 1271 RPM and the HP to the load is approx 9.2 HP. The pump manufacturer has narrowed it down to two motors for the pump. 6 pole 15 HP and 4 pole 20 HP.

We are using premium efficiency motor for our selection.

Nema standard points out that the 4 pole 20 hp has a slight higher efficiency than the 6 pole 15 HP (93% and 91.7% respectively reference:http://www.energy.wsu.edu/documents/engineering/motors/EfficiencyStandards.pdf)

)

However when considering that these will be run via VFD it seems that other factors will also influence the final efficiency of the system.

In the case of the 4 pole (1800 RPM)the operating speed will be 70% of the rated speed at 60 Hz, whereas the operating speed of the 6 pole will be 6% above the rated speed (1200 RPM @ 60 HZ)

My undestanding is that VFD's decrease their efficiency as the driving speed drifts from the natural 60 Hz speed correct? and if so is this enough to offset the slightly better efficiency of the 4 pole?

Which motor will be more efficient once the use of VFD is factored in?

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#1

Re: Motor Poles and Maximum Efficiency

02/16/2010 4:01 PM

I believe that you will want the four pole 20 HP motor just for the simple fact that you will not be exceeding any of the drive characteristics. To he11 with the theoretical efficiencies.

In the case of the 4 pole (1800 RPM)the operating speed will be 70% of the rated speed at 60 Hz, whereas the operating speed of the 6 pole will be 6% above the rated speed (1200 RPM @ 60 HZ)

On general principles, expecting any component to operate above any stated parameter will bite you somewhere, somehow. It maybe premature bearing failure, it maybe that 1272 RPM is not possible at all with that motor under load. (Oh it's been a long time since I've used anything but a stepping motor, but I think that efficiencies rise when one lowers the drive frequency from normal operations and drops dramatically when increasing the frequency above operating points, too.)

I am also suspicious of the stated constant torque load. I suspect that getting this displacement pump to start moving will require more torque than to maintain motion. This higher torque to start motion also favors the lower pole motor.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Motor Poles and Maximum Efficiency

02/16/2010 7:16 PM

I'd look at nameplate amp draw and service factor. At 6% over you may not be close to FLA. Then, there's the service factor, which I have used in the past without problems. These were 5 HP centrifugal pumps. Gotta eat.

I do agree with redfred

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#3

Re: Motor Poles and Maximum Efficiency

02/16/2010 10:34 PM

You have a positive displ. pump pumping something at 1271 rpm, requiring 9.2, say 10 hp to do so. You do not mention a variable pumpage output, which should have a high-low limit in Q and rpm. (Q=output volume in time, like gallons/minute (gpm) or other) But you do mention a constant torque. I assume therefore, that your Q is constant, at a constant rpm, needing 10 hp to do so. So the question arises why do you need a VFD in the first place. And why a 15-20 hp motor when you need 10 hp. Your motor should run at about 90% loading. Then you get the best power factor and best efficiency. Surely you don't need a VFD to reduce pump shaft speed from nominal to 1270 rpm. There are excellent speed reducers on the market, costing much less than VFD and much less troublesome. A 6 pole motor will run at 1200 rpm and a 4 pole at 1800 rpm, which is the industry standard. At 1200 rpm your Q will be a bit less than what you get with 1271. Can you live with that? If you can, go for it. Then a direct shaft to shaft drive will do the job just fine. No VFD, no speed reducers. And match your motor hp to your need as closely as possible.

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#4

Re: Motor Poles and Maximum Efficiency

02/17/2010 5:38 AM

I suggest that you go with one of the options from the supply pump company. To me you are trying to second guess what they are selling. You must remember that you will have a 12 month warrentee on any product purchased and it is their problem making it run.

You do not mention the pump application. Is it rod driven? As one of the replies stated, you don't need a VSD if you have the correct motor and you can either use gearing or a speed reducer. Take a look at Weatherford PCP drives, call them, ask questions.

Having worked for a pump company, I have seen customers tell the application engineer this is what we want, totally disregarding any advice.. then bitch about the result. So a word of caution.. work with your supplier. If you're not happy, then go somewhere else, but do not be surprised if the suggestions are almost the same.

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#5
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Re: Motor Poles and Maximum Efficiency

02/17/2010 9:25 AM

Could't agree more with, "Having worked for a pump company, I have seen customers tell the application engineer this is what we want, totally disregarding any advice.. then bitch about the result"

As an OEM supplier of equipment using tons of pumps, some of our largest customers were forever spec'ing oversized pumps and then complaining when they burnt up due to being throttled back excessivesly to keep from damaging product in the spray chambers. Unless you are designing and fabricating custom pumps, work with the supplier.

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#6
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Re: Motor Poles and Maximum Efficiency

02/17/2010 9:42 AM

many thanks

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