Previous in Forum: 1998 Dodge Ram 2500 - Electrical Problem   Next in Forum: Automotive Anti Collision Device
Close
Close
Close
17 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster

Torque Measurement

02/24/2010 1:03 AM

Can someone please explain how the commoners came to call the unit of torque ft/lbs.?

The proper English unit of rotational force is POUND/FOOT.

The foot/pound is a measure of LINEAR work.

Get it right, people.

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#1

Re: Torque measurement

02/24/2010 1:13 AM

That would be the difference between the House of Lords and the House of Commoners, would it not?

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis)
Posts: 4216
Good Answers: 194
#2

Re: Torque measurement

02/24/2010 1:37 AM

The units of torque, in imperial units, is ft*lbf.

Torque is the product of distance and force. Using the associative property, it doesn't matter which of the factors is listed first. Therefore, ft*lbf or lbf*ft are equally "right".

Go to your textbooks and verify this.

__________________
"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#4
In reply to #2

Re: Torque measurement

02/24/2010 3:20 AM

Quite right.

I think it may be easier for the OP if the units are "spelt out":

ft*lbf ≡ "foot-pounds-force".

OP's POUND/FOOT is "pounds per foot", a measure of linear density (or cost ).

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#3

Re: Torque measurement

02/24/2010 2:36 AM

As to the OP, it is neither pound/foot nor foot/pound. It is either foot-pound or pound-foot. As in kilowatt-hour (not kilowatt/hour), the hyphen indicates multiplication of units (versus division).

Although commutative (not associative) property can justify either order of the terms, there is a tradition of foot-pounds to express the lifting of so many pounds to so many feet. To help avoid confusion, torque is expressed in pound-feet or newton-meters (or derivatives such as ounces or inches and maybe centimeters). [All of that was lbf, not lbm.]

Yours sincerely--Editor Crankshaft

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143
#5

Re: Torque measurement

02/24/2010 6:52 AM

If you want to be precise, in the US, NIST specifies the quantity as moment of force, not torque, and it is measured in Newton·meter.

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geelong, Australia
Posts: 1084
Good Answers: 54
#6

Re: Torque Measurement

02/24/2010 11:00 PM

Hello Guest. As already explained Torque = force * moment arm. So it's Ft.lbf or N.m

Just as well you didn't use your real name what.

__________________
If there's something you don't understand...Then a wizard did it. As heard on "The Simpsons".
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 284
Good Answers: 18
#7

Re: Torque Measurement

02/24/2010 11:29 PM

Sez dis Canadian ... go METRIC, already!!!

I mean, really ... who can tell the difference between pounds, slugs, and jiggers these days?

DZ

__________________
Do unto others. Then run.
Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Torque Measurement

02/24/2010 11:47 PM

At least SI quotes force x (perpendicularly projected) radius in the correct order....

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Reply
Guru
United States - Member - Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southeast US of A
Posts: 555
Good Answers: 50
#9

Re: Torque Measurement

02/25/2010 12:00 AM

Make sure you're right next time before you post.

__________________
Speak softly and carry a big stick.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4484
Good Answers: 246
#10

Re: Torque Measurement

02/25/2010 12:11 AM

Funny post, in the ironic, pot calling the kettle black, sense.

The proper unit of rotational force is not POUND/FOOT.

Nor is the foot/pound the measure of work.

Before posting on an engineering site, one should learn arithmetic.

__________________
There is more to life than just eating mice.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geelong, Australia
Posts: 1084
Good Answers: 54
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Torque Measurement

02/25/2010 12:32 AM

Be kind, he may just be using "NEW MATH".

It's a more socially relevant, inclusive, non patriarchal, non gender or sexuality specific form of 'number based cognition' that is approved by all traditional land owners and marginalised groups. It seeks to move away from a rigid and exclusive insistence on "understanding" and towards a more flexible empowering and intuitive empathy about 'number situations'.

Unfortunately it's just about useless if you want to work something out.

__________________
If there's something you don't understand...Then a wizard did it. As heard on "The Simpsons".
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4484
Good Answers: 246
#13
In reply to #11

Re: Torque Measurement

02/25/2010 1:59 AM

How clumsy of me. I was trying to compliment the OP on his sense of humor.

I agree completely regarding the value of a more flexible and inclusive notion of mathematics. I recently came across a thread about our automotive engines being less than 1% efficient. It is very hard to arrive at such a figure using outmoded standard math. The obvious value of such a figure is that an inventor could make a 10% efficient engine, and claim a very large efficiency gain. The old math would make a 10% efficient engine appear to be less efficient than current engines, which would stifle creativity.

__________________
There is more to life than just eating mice.
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas, by God! Houston for precision
Posts: 167
Good Answers: 2
#12

Re: Torque Measurement

02/25/2010 12:36 AM

Foot - Pound has them in alphabetical order. It's neater that way.

__________________
If all else fails, read the directions. That's if, and only if.
Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 284
Good Answers: 18
#14
In reply to #12

Re: Torque Measurement

02/25/2010 7:45 AM

I'm with Ktel on this one.

There's another factor to consider too, though. In English, 'foot-pound' is a mere noun, whereas 'pound foot' is an order ("Sir, yes SIR!" ). Safety regulations thus require 'foot-pound'. True fact!

DZ

__________________
Do unto others. Then run.
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#15

Re: Torque Measurement

02/25/2010 8:10 PM

I believe you got it wrong. The unit of torque is ft.lb NOT ft/lb.

It is pronounced foot pounds and not foot per pound.

Take note and spread the word

Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 83
Good Answers: 1
#16

Re: Torque Measurement

02/26/2010 2:18 AM

From Tim Hawley Master Mech.

Hello Guest,

The torque wrench was invented here in Detroit Michigan by Paul Allen Sturtevant, which is measured pound-force foot (lbf-ft) and (lbf-in).

He used the basic principals of Newton's laws of motion. which is measured in newton meters (N.m)

The above is equal to rules for calculating Energy related to pound force / Newton Meters.

The above should not be confused with measurement of force principals.

Regards,

Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Participant

Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1
#17
In reply to #16

Re: Torque Measurement

10/31/2012 1:34 PM

1. Sturtevant did not design the torque wrench, but he did make significant improvement to it. There is an article on Wikipedia that says that Walter Chrysler invented the beam type torque wrench, but I contacted the Chrysler Museum and they have no record of this. Sturtevant lived in Glen Ellyn, then Elmhurst IL, before he retired to Ft. Meyers FL about 1970. He passed away in 1987. He had a small machine shop in Glen Ellyn, that according to Wikipedia, made torque wrenches for Chrysler. The first patent issued to Sturtevant in 1938 was a design patent that only covered the ornamental style for his wrench. His first utility patent, which covers functional details, was issued in 1942, and added improvements to the current designs: a pivoting handle and tapered beam, both for improved accuracy. The shop also began producing small electric trains, originally for his son, but later for amusement parks. The torque wrench company became P. A. Sturtevant Company in Addison IL, the train business became Miniature Train Co., and the machine shop was shut down. Sturtevant was acquired by Symington Wayne, which merged with Dresser Industries, and the Sturtevant line was merged with other acquisitions Sherman Kloves (S-K), Cleco Pneumatic, and Richmont. The torque business was spun off in a management buyout and is the current Sturtevant-Richmont in Carol Stream, IL.

2. Torque and energy are not equivalent, and are not calculated the same way. Torque is a force multiplied by the length of the lever arm, where the length is measured perpendicular to the direction of the force. The energy expended to perform work is the force times the distance moved, where the distance is measured parallel to the direction of the force.

Reply Off Topic (Score 4)
Reply to Forum Thread 17 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); Blink (2); DreadZontar (2); ffej (2); JohnDG (1); ktel60 (1); Mikerho (1); rfischer (1); standarded (1); Tim Hawley Master Mech (1); Tornado (3); TVP45 (1)

Previous in Forum: 1998 Dodge Ram 2500 - Electrical Problem   Next in Forum: Automotive Anti Collision Device

Advertisement