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Location: Roseville (Detroit area), Michigan
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304 SS and mild steel, galvanic reaction?

03/27/2010 6:22 PM

I have a 14,000# J&R Mfg. steel boat hoist, in Harrison Township, Michigan. The hoist has a pair of "pillow blocks" or heavy duty rollers that are infamous for seizing after some 10+ years. I want to replace them but found that they cost $250.00 each!!! They are nothing more than a 3" roller held in place by 1/2" welded plates. All steel on the hoist is structural, probably A36.

I want to make the replacements myself, since I have run a fab / prototype stamping shop full of lasers, bridgeports, welders, and presses.

I want to make my replacements of 304 SS. I need to know what kind of reaction I will get from the dissimilar metals. I would just do it and see what happens but it will save much money on my set to make 20 or 30 sets and sell them to my neighbors with similar hoist issues. I do not want to sell them without knowing how it will react after 5-10 years of water exposure. They are only in the water while the boat is out on a ride. When the boat is on the hoist they are out of the water. During the winter they are also up out of the water. Some people may go for a week trip and leave the hoist down but this is fresh water so I don't think there will be much reaction even after a week of being submersed.

Can anyone confirm this?????

Also, i am looking for a 3" diameter x 4" long roller / bearing I can weld in between (2) 1/2" plates with grease zirks on the ends of the roller. I assume there are some bearings inside that need to be sealed but if properly greased and SS, it might not need to be sealed. Any idea who makes a product like this?

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Anonymous Poster
#1

Re: 304 SS and mild steel, galvanic reaction?

03/27/2010 7:01 PM
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#2

Re: 304 SS and mild steel, galvanic reaction?

03/27/2010 7:58 PM

Go for it! You won't have any problems.

Corrosion / Galvanic Compatibility Table of Contents
Metal Products Supplier
Engineering Metals and Materials Table of Contents

Quality engineering and design requires an understanding of material compatibility. Galvanic corrosion (some times called dissimilar metal corrosion) is the process by which the materials in contact with each other oxidizes or corrodes. There are three conditions that must exist for galvanic corrosion to occur. First there must be two electrochemically dissimilar metals present. Second, there must be an electrically conductive path between the two metals. And third, there must be a conductive path for the metal ions to move from the more anodic metal to the more cathodic metal. If any one of these three conditions does not exist, galvanic corrosion will not occur. Often when design requires that dissimilar metals come in contact, the galvanic compatibility is managed by finishes and plating. The finishing and plating selected facilitate the dissimilar materials being in contact and protect the base materials from corrosion.

For harsh environments, such as outdoors, high humidity, and salt environments fall into this category. Typically there should be not more than 0.15 V difference in the "Anodic Index". For example; gold – silver would have a difference of 0.15V being acceptable.

For normal environments, such as storage in warehouses or non-temperature and humidity controlled environments. Typically there should not be more than 0.25 V difference in the "Anodic Index".

For controlled environments, such that are temperature and humidity controlled, 0.50 V can be tolerated. Caution should be maintained when deciding for this application as humidity and temperature do vary from regions

METALLURGICAL CATEGORY

ANODIC INDEX (V)

Gold, solid and plated, Gold-platinum alloy 0.00
Rhodium plated on silver-plated copper 0.05
Silver, solid or plated; monel metal. High nickel-copper alloys 0.15
Nickel, solid or plated, titanium an s alloys, Monel 0.30
Copper, solid or plated; low brasses or bronzes; silver solder; German silvery high copper-nickel alloys; nickel-chromium alloys 0.35
Brass and bronzes 0.40
High brasses and bronzes 0.45
18% chromium type corrosion-resistant steels 0.50
Chromium plated; tin plated; 12% chromium type corrosion-resistant steels 0.60
Tin-plate; tin-lead solder 0.65
Lead, solid or plated; high lead alloys 0.70
Aluminum, wrought alloys of the 2000 Series 0.75
Iron, wrought, gray or malleable, plain carbon and low alloy steels 0.85
Aluminum, wrought alloys other than 2000 Series aluminum, cast alloys of the silicon type 0.90
Aluminum, cast alloys other than silicon type, cadmium, plated and chromate 0.95
Hot-dip-zinc plate; galvanized steel 1.20
Zinc, wrought; zinc-base die-casting alloys; zinc plated 1.25
Magnesium & magnesium-base alloys, cast or wrought 1.75
Beryllium 1.85

Other documents of interest:

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#3

Re: 304 SS and mild steel, galvanic reaction?

03/28/2010 10:41 PM

If you insulate the two different metals whit an inert plate of say nylon plastic it should eliminate the problem completely. Most of my experience is in harsh saltwater but I do have experience with a steel hulled Criss Craft Roamer out of South Shore Yacht Club in Milwaukee Wisconsin. Isolation with either plastics, plating or good coatings of paint or a like has proven to work extremely well in Lake Michigan.

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#4

Re: 304 SS and mild steel, galvanic reaction?

03/29/2010 12:18 AM

hi

304 is probably not the first choice for underwater 316 would be better but more expensive. anyway SKF builds some stainless series of berrings that will work underwater with a grease backup.

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#5

Re: 304 SS and mild steel, galvanic reaction?

03/29/2010 5:28 AM

Make a phone call down to Jefferson Beach Marina at 9 Mile Rd. and see what they recommend. They deal with this problem all the time.

24400 Jefferson Ave ·

  • Saint Clair Shores
  • (586) 778-7600

  • Purchase 8-12" long 304 SS round Bar stock from Alro Steel @ 3" Dia. Cut to length, Bore a center hole at the desired O.D. bearing size less -.003". Press new bearings in place. Detroit Ball Bearing would be a good local resource..
  • Detroit Ball Bearing

  • (586) 978-7400
  • 35430 Beattie Dr
  • Sterling Heights, MI 48312

Alro Steel, Jackson Mi.

Link http://www.alro.com/DATACatalog/CatalogPages/009-Stainless.pdf#page=14

  • Call these three locations and add up your costs. $250.00 maybe a good price, just thinking...
  • Regards, Tim
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#6
In reply to #5

Re: 304 SS and mild steel, galvanic reaction?

03/29/2010 7:25 AM

The price of $250 would be fine if made to last (from stainless), to pay that for a-36 steel is just wrong!!!

Thanks for the info, I already have my pricing from Alro, that's where we buy most of our steel.

As far as the roller design, I need a good way to make a 4" roller, put bearings that will handle up to a 10,000# load at very low speed, weld the 3/8" plates on each side (held by a piece of angle iron between them) and have grease zirks on each end. I got the idea of boring the roller and pressing in the bearings but how do I keep access to it with grease and sealed?

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: 304 SS and mild steel, galvanic reaction?

03/29/2010 8:34 AM

Use 316 SS shafts put notch lock plates on each end . Fit in 316 SS pipe of required strength with solid bronze internal bearings, ideal for slow heavy loads, fit double lip shaft seals on each end of pipe roller housing use grease Zerk's to grease down center hole to completely pack with an appropriate grease till bearing is completely full. This will outlast your steel frame which should ideally be galvanised.

Fairly expensive material cost but would be cheap in the long term.

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#8

Re: 304 SS and mild steel, galvanic reaction?

03/29/2010 9:42 AM

stainless steel in contact with carbon steel will cause pitting corrosion on the stainless because relative motion between the two will embed carbon steel particles into the surface of the stainless and disrupt the Chrome oxide layer that is protecting the stainless form corrosion. This is the same reason why you don't use tools and wire brushes that have been used on carbon steel to prepare stainless for welding. Carbon steel plus stainless steel is a no-no!

why not use carbon steel and hot dip galvanize it?

Also, instead of using roller bearings (which will not last, even if you keep them greased every day) consider using Oillite bronze or Graphaloy graphite filled bronze bushings or even Igus polymer bushings. they'll last forever with minimal maintenence. The friction will be a bit higher, but the cost savings in maintenence will keep you smiling all the way to the bank.

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#9

Re: 304 SS and mild steel, galvanic reaction?

03/29/2010 10:12 AM

I am in complete agreement with Rorschach! I am not sure what you are doing with the stainless and the Mild, but you do not want them to touch in any way. Especially DO NOT weld them. You will rust worse than you can imagine.

I also agree with the responder(s) who urge to go to 316. I would if it was my project...

Finally, in a wet environment I would also skip the greased ball bearing. If you are going to put in a ball bearing, make sure it is a good double-sealed unit, and put it in there forever. If you find a cheap source (often in the <$25 range), you can replace them when they do give up, but they won't last for crap once you allow greasing. Even well trained maintenance men over-grease Zerk's and blow out the seals, surely these weekend putterers will blow them out the first week they are installed, and the bearings will be shot in a year! A better bet is the suggested oilite bushing. It will require nothing over it's life (centuries given their use), It will always remain free, and it will have a HUGE load capacity. Press in a $1 oilite bushing and forget it forever.

Another completely viable option may be a Nylon or UHMW roller with a stainless shaft trough a hole bored in it. It does not need any sort of a bearing, will also have a huge load rating, and will NEVER rust (plastic can't rust). Add that to an extremely favorable cost (as compared to 316 stainless), as well as lack of need for a separate bearing, and you have a winner all the way around.

Best of luck.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: 304 SS and mild steel, galvanic reaction?

03/29/2010 10:32 AM

A lot of this has to do with environment. Which we cannot control. Go back and read my first post. You must have all three conditions present to have galvanic corrosion that could be a problem. They may or may not exist here. Obviously, a boat house will be damp, so it is up to the OP to decide what course to take.

And I take exception to " but you do not want them to touch in any way. Especially DO NOT weld them. You will rust worse than you can imagine." Once again, it is totally dependent on the environment.

I have welded MS to SS numeruos times, using MS wire I might add, and the rusting you describe DOES NOT OCCUR. These pieces are outdoors 24/7/365.

Cheers.

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Anonymous Poster
#11

Re: 304 SS and mild steel, galvanic reaction?

03/29/2010 12:12 PM

Could you incorporate "bearing buddies" into your design?

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Anonymous Poster
#12

Re: 304 SS and mild steel, galvanic reaction?

03/30/2010 8:20 PM

Check out this link.They have maintenance free bearings for underwater and hostile environments.

http://www.ggbearings.com/

HTRN

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Anonymous Poster
#13

Re: 304 SS and mild steel, galvanic reaction?

04/04/2010 8:49 AM

Here is a link to UHMW round stock(rod).This is great stuff, outwears SS,etc.very low friction, no lube required,immune to most chemicals.Not too pricey, either.

Should last a lifetime in your application.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23155&catid=868

HTRN

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