How Do Batteries Work?

The best outcome for this question will be if some top electrical engineers/technologists from India address it.

Lithium-Ion 100% depth of discharge. 1-2 hour charges.

Super Caps. I agree are the way to go but have their issues in power conditioning. The larger caps which could run cars or households still have some time before they hit the retail market.

The lead plates, the electrolyte, and the container do the storage. The lead plates will absorb the charge. (that's a little simplified) There is a formula somewhere. Learned it once never used it again!

In electrostatics - we know charges are on the plates or electrodes. Now let me push the idea a little further.

Can I take charged plates out of a battery container, and place it in another container with fresh electrolyte? What happens to the charges?

Sigh. If this thread doesn't deserve a homework flag, I don't know what does.

Batteries work by a variety of chemical reactions. The specific chemical reaction will, of course, vary with the type of battery one has. As you may remember from elementary Chemistry; many chemical reactions are not reversible at all, some are reversible with the addition of the correct energy and/or catalyst, while some chemical reactions easily reverse and a balanced equilibrium occurs of agents and reagents exist simultaneously.

Now a capacitor must certainly rely on the laws of Chemistry to exist, stay assembled and function properly; the energy storage mechanism is not a chemical reaction. A chemical reaction in a capacitor is the most common long term cause of capacitor failure and thus MTBF values can be calculated using the Arrhenius equation.

Let me explain why I am pushing this idea further. It is not for fun.

1. We all know all kinds of batteries take about 8 to 10 hours to charge and for this reason electric vehicles have not been commercialized. Batteries are also bulky (to enable vehicle to travel longer distances with single charge).
2. Today to top up my tank in a petrol engine, we drive down to a petrol station and just fill tank in a few minutes and drive away- and do even 1000 or more kilometers with a single filling.
3. Unfortunately battery based vehicles need 10 hours to charge up.
4. One way of over coming the problem is - I drive down and change over to fully charged new battery every time
1. It is expensive.
2. Take another case - where the charges are in chemical / dielectric and not on the plate.
3. What prevents me from removing / sucking out old chemical and refilling with pre-charged chemical- all in a few minutes?
4. OR if you say charges or on the plate and not in the chemical, I will take out plates and put charged plates- all in a few minutes.
5. I would have achieved my objective of charging battery in a shorter time.
6. Energy filling stations can use those plates or chemicals and charge them separately.

CAN I DO THIS???? So I really look forward to Chemical Engineers, Electrical engineers to look at battery design from thsi point of view.

I am also aiming at another solution if the two above do not work.

So the problem posed is definitely aimed at finding some solving serious issues related to batteries.

Sorry but all your ideas are wel known and none of them work.

Engineers have tried for years to make batteries lighter faster charging etc.

even an idea where you drive to a recharge place and swap you discharged batteries for a set of charged batteries fitted in a quick change battery case.

it is possible to dry charge plates then imerse them is electrolyte but this would be dangerous at a filling station.

most batteries are shipped dry charged and filled with electolye befor final sale.

but there is a 2 hour delay before battery can be used

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/ageng/safety/ae1022w.htm

http://www.tpub.com/content/batteries/TM-9-6140-200-14/TM-9-6140-200-140069.htm

http://www.concordebattery.com/otherpdf/drycharg_msds.pdf

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-13.htm

point #3. There is a "Redox flow battery". the 2 electrolytes can both be pumped out and replaced in minutes and continue on your way. the filling station could actually recharge the spent electrolyte and keep in continous circulation. theoretically anyways.

These are fuel cells. Should work.

Now why do you suppose they have not taken over the battery business? Could it be there are some inherent problems that need to be solved? Just wonderin'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc-air_battery

Charge time of 8-10 hours is fine for a large number of applications. Many battery systems could be charged faster, like 2-3 hours for lithium-ions, with no damage or reduction in service life. Longer charge times are usually more a function of practical power availability and charger cost.

The specific problem of recharging an EV in 3 minutes, like a typical petrol refueling stop, is a HUGE problem on several levels. Many people, all over the world, have been working on this for decades. Progress is slow, but some advances are being made.

Assuming you already had magic-supercap-batteries, have you even thought about HOW you would provide the charging energy?

A practical EV battery bank should contain about 32 [kW-hr] or 115 [MJ] of energy.

8 [hr] recharge @ 4 [kW]; 220 [V] @ 18 [A] is quite practical for most homes.
2 [hr] recharge @ 16 [kW]; 220 [V] @ 73 [A] is a large load since many older homes here only have a 100 A service.
0.5 [hr] recharge @ 64 [kW]; 220 [V] @ 291 [A] is beyond the typical 200 A capacity of all but a very few homes here.
3 [minute] recharge @ 640 [kW]; 440 [V] @ 485 [A] 3ph is only realistic for commercial/industrial sites.

The logistics and infrastructure needed to safely provide megawatt recharging stations is not a trivial issue. Safety is also a major concern since any mistakes using this level of electrical power will melt your face off before you can blink.

You keep trying to get others to come up with a get rich quick scheme for you.

Capacitors are the electrical equivalent of a spring. They store energy by a progressive accumulation of charge with increased voltage and reach their limit at the insulator breakdown point. They are also governed by the problem that the voltage declines to zero as they charge is consumed in a straight line, so the load will have to tolerate a variable voltage, or a built in circuit will stabilize the output to a regulated voltage. Once the voltage falls below the useable voltage, the rest of the charge cannot be used. bateries create a voltage that depends on an electromotive chemical transition and the voltage is constant until the chemical (charge) is consumed and it goes to zero, more or less.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_(electricity)

Batteries are still a mystery to the scientific world, the math does not complete an equation. Ha

Here is a simple answer. In certain chemical reactions called oxidation-reduction reactions, one substance gives up electrons (is oxidized) and another substance accepts the electrons (is reduced). These electrons are made to flow through an external circuit where they give up energy which was stored chemically in the battery. In a rechargeable battery, the process is reversed where the electrons are forced back into the original configuration.

He is looking for someone to come up with a workable idea for him - for free. He cares less how the things work.

Thank you russ123,

You precisely pointed out the reason of my foul mood with this individual. I can tolerate people who pay my salary making money from my knowledge. I am eager to share my knowledge with those willing to learn. I accept that I can be tricked into helping somebody I despise into making money. But I will not tolerate anyone trying to profit from me that won't even buy me a beer.

Hey Russ, I want to get rich too what else have you got??????????

Already tried my ideas and they didn't work so İ am stuck as a poor slob!

Suggestion: Read about batteries basics before you post.

8-10 hrs is completely wrong. LI batteries are on the market that can be charged in 10 minutes (search A 123).

But how do batteries work? They do not follow capacitor equation !! Where is the charge stored? Is it in the rejuvenated chemical inside it?

To confirm your understanding: you are correct, batteries to not follow the capacitor equation, and that is indeed a shocker !! About the "rejuvenated chemical": no one outside the alchemist society is allowed to know this. For consumption by ordinary engineers: The charge is stored in magichrons.

Go to YouTube. Type in MIT. Choose the appropriate lecture. Pay close attention to the part that the professor takes apart a Leyden jar then puts it back together.

Watch all their lectures, it will help!

Won't help. If he cannot make a million rupees ripping people off with public information he cannot grasp, it doesn't interest him. He's just a salesman. One day he'll commit his company to something that is theoretically possible but financially impossible. The company will fold and he'll blame the engineers as incompetent.

Maybe someone can uncharge Nature for its part in Global Warming:

http://naturesglobalwarming.blogspot.com/

A remarkable blog entry. From a brand new blog.

It will take a lot of evidence to the contrary to convince ME that less smoke in the air might not be a good thing.