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DC Power Supply

05/24/2010 6:13 PM

I'm trying to make a simple dc power supply w/ a full bridge rectifier, 2 caps, a pot, and a lm317. my transformer is a 120v to 25.2 v. I'm using this typical schematic and I know it works, but every time I turn the pot down to around 17v from a max of about 28v, the pot starts smoking, has any one got a clue, please.

i am using a positive lm317 which I think is correct is there anyway that I need a negative. I can't believe something so simple is about to drive me crazy, but it is.

Thanks a ton for any suggestions,

ps. I don't think it is from any heat as it will do it the second I turn the pot after hitting the switch on.

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#1

Re: DC Power Supply

05/24/2010 7:04 PM

Use same 5K pot (if not burned-out from previous connection) and pot always sees the output voltage on its ends and not the output voltage at 240 Ohm that gives too much pot current at pot position zero SM

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Anonymous Poster
#2

Re: DC Power Supply

05/24/2010 7:29 PM

I checked the National Semiconductor G.P. linears and I saw that your schematic corresponds to a LM117 suffix T or K (TO-220 and TO-3 respectively), but a schematic for a similar regulator using a LM317 is somewhat more complex, if you have the National "General Purpose Linear Devices" goto page 1-45 or download a datasheet from the web.

Suffix is important, it tells you the power rating:

K TO-3 20W

H TO-39 2W

T TO-220 20W

MP TO-202 2W

Yahlasit

P.D if your pot smoked, replace also the regulator.

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#3

Re: DC Power Supply

05/24/2010 7:31 PM

It sounds like you have the power output being applied direct to the the pot, and when you turn the wiper close to ground its trying to short the output to ground. Burning up the pot in the process.

The above is an alternate (safer) circuit with protection diodes.

When using three terminal regulators, its nice to have reasonable sized filter cap at the rectifier, then a bypass cap of 0.1uf at the input (pin1) and output(pin3) as well as cap on the output I usually use 10uf but it could be 1uf depends on the manufacturer of the IC. The bypass caps are important as they stop the Regulator from oscillating.

You should measure the device to ensure that it is ok, ie not a short circuit between the input and output legs. Also the Heat sink tab is electrically connected to Pin 2 (Adjust).

Re reading your post, you do have a resistor(R1) between Pin 3 and Pin 2 for biasing? and not just the Pot?

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#14
In reply to #3

Re: DC Power Supply

05/26/2010 9:29 PM

I had the lm317 outpot and adjust legs backwards. I was wiring it toward the schematic drawings. I can guarantee this is something that will never be forgotten.

Thanks for your help.

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#4

Re: DC Power Supply

05/24/2010 7:43 PM

I don't remember off the top of my head what the adjustment voltage level will be but since you have the data sheet you can look this up. I suspect that your problem though is that you're not taking into account the changing power dissipation that your pot must handle. If your potentiometer is rated for 1/2W, thats the power the potentiometer can dissipate across the fixed resistance leads, not the wiper to fixed resistance end. Now don't forget that most transformer manufacturers rate the output in RMS voltage out. This will mean that you will get a √2*25.2VRMS≈35VDC after your diode bridge when the transformer is providing rated current. While you're circuit is drawing less current this will be a larger voltage. So the linear regulator will have to dissipate nearly the same amount of power as all of the rest of your circuitry.

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#5

Re: DC Power Supply

05/25/2010 12:35 AM

The problem is pretty clear. You are smoking pot (sorry, I couldn't resist the pun)

Before providing a robust solution, more information is needed.

>What output voltage range do you really need?
>Does the output have to be continuously adjustable or are a few discrete output voltages acceptable?
>How much current do you need ?

These are critical pieces of information which significantly affect a real circuit design. Simplified cookbook circuits can work fine, but reliable circuit design requires well defined numbers and careful consideration of power dissipation, temperature rise, and heat flow.

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#6

Re: DC Power Supply

05/25/2010 1:35 AM

hey everyone! i can not thank you enough for all your input.

I am a 46 year old rookie to this and had to build this for a class, well , i've been reading and building according to blueprints for over 20 years so when i see the lm317 as shown in a schematic then i can build it according to prints. WRONG, so i have found out. I don't understand why it is drawn different, but i have assumed that the middle leg was the adjustment(makes sense to me). Seems like i have a lot to learn. Anyway, when i finally got the proper wiring to the lm317, it worked fine. I guess old habits really are hard to break.

Also don't feel like any of your suggestions and info. were wasted because i have learned from you lots of things to watch out for in the future.

Thank you again very, very much.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: DC Power Supply

05/25/2010 9:32 AM

You made a fairly common error. The block schematic symbol has the correct pin labels, but you must check the device package and pinout spec to get the wiring correct. Since you are just starting out in electronics, don't feel too bad about that mistake

Digression/old story...skip if too boring

Fade back 15 years when we had all engineering design, product development, and full product manufacturing /test under one roof here in the US. I briefly supervised an overly confident 3rd year EE co-op student from a top(??) engineering school. The co-op positions were paid 3 month student learning jobs, not the unpaid apprentice type jobs.

His first simple task was to build a +/- 15 VDC regulated power supply for a test fixture. I strongly advised reading the device databook first, but he KNEW better. After smoking three LM317s, he came back for help claiming all the parts were defective. I asked him to get the databook and show me the package pinout. It was the first time he actually read the device literature and he quickly realized his wiring mistake. The positive power supply was working within the hour.

As he returned to the lab to build the LM337 negative supply, I strongly suggested he read the databook for that part. Once again he ignored the advice and proceeded to smoke two LM337s. After several hours of frustration, he finally checked the LM337 specs to see that the LM317 and LM337 regulators DO NOT have the same pin order.

I really wanted to return this co-op as defective, but he was able to finish his time in another department. As a design engineer this person had below average skills and over-the-top arrogance. I heard he is now in upper management. The Dilbert principle seems to be alive and well

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#11
In reply to #8

Re: DC Power Supply

05/26/2010 5:21 AM

Your last Paragraph was perfect, seen it many times. Also the reaon why may companies go to the wall!!!

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#12
In reply to #8

Re: DC Power Supply

05/26/2010 8:42 PM

NOT BORING BY ANY MEANS.....

You honestly made me feel a whole lot better.That is a very good story and thanks for sharing. We have a few know it alls in my class so i definitely know the type. I can only hope that what ever engineer i work for, he's not like that guy, but then again that would not bother me as much as a know it all tech.

I know one thing and not being cocky by no means, but i will find out exactly how anything is to be wired before starting. It was a big learning experience because i had never heard of anything that was not built according to the blueprint hence my learning that electrical schematics are not the same.

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#16
In reply to #12

Re: DC Power Supply

05/27/2010 1:36 AM

Thanks. It is difficult, but sometimes necessary, to change direction midstream and I may need to pursue a similar change. I do wish you good fortune in your new path since you seem to have some common sense intelligence and humility that so many others completely lack.

Final comment...arrogance CAN be a useful trait IF there is sufficient knowledge, skill, and successful implementation of BOTH to back it up. Good luck!

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: DC Power Supply

05/27/2010 3:01 AM

The old saying "Pride comes before a fall!" fits well when you replace "Pride" with "Arrogance"!! For example:-

"Arrogance comes before a fall!"

I personally still see it as a personality fault and in my relatively long life, I cannot think of a SINGLE instance where an "Arrogant" person did NOT have their "Cumuppence"....

Agreed some quicker than the others, but it always happened, I just had to be patient for a little bit longer!!! I am talking days, not even weeks......

But each to his own!!

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#10
In reply to #6

Re: DC Power Supply

05/26/2010 5:18 AM

It would actually work provided the output voltage required is almost the same as the input, or within 5 to 7 volts.....but not if you try and screw the voltage down any lower....

The other circuits shown from other posts are much better, have you tried any yet? Are you now happy?

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: DC Power Supply

05/26/2010 9:24 PM

Hey Andy, no i have not used any other schematics, i had to use this one because it was a class project. I was wiring the lm317 exactly how it is shown on all schematics that i have seen. Imagine my surprise when i actually looked on the back of the lm317 package that it came in. Will go from 28v down to 1.25v (the output of the lm317 i imagine).

Thanks for the info.

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#7

Re: DC Power Supply

05/25/2010 6:17 AM

If Pot is 18 years old and above, smoking is leagel.

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#15
In reply to #7

Re: DC Power Supply

05/26/2010 10:18 PM

Selling and growing is illegal, but smoking OK?

I could never figure that logic.

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#9

Re: DC Power Supply

05/26/2010 4:19 AM

Most things have been mentioned- lm317/lm350 between mans could be inferior-v/r- pot you are using could be lo rate- could be dry solder joint or incorrect hookup- before applying smoke test-check= check-check again!

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#18

Re: DC Power Supply

05/27/2010 4:20 AM

I notice that you show no filter capacitor for your rectifier. The 0.1 uf capacitor will act as a noise filter but leaves energy storage undone. The transformer selection is also a likely problem since 25.2 VAC into the rectifier will give peak voltage output of nearly 35V. This 35 V exceeds the input rating on the LM317, unless you only adjust output down to 10V or so.

You should (1.) replace the transformer with a lower voltage device, then (2.) support the 0.1 uf capacitor with a parallelled 1000 uf device with, say, 35VDC rating.

When, with the present circuit, you measure 28 VDC, your meter is lying to you for reasons you possibly haven't yet covered in class. The DC voltage you expect from the rectifier will, in fact, be unfiltered pulses of (25.2 V * 1.4) - 1.2 V at 120 Hz. This will be read as an average voltage of around 25 VDC. If you switch the meter to read the AC component, instead of a small ripple value of, say, less than 5 VAC (also a lie but you need to figure this one out) the reading will probably exceed 12 VAC with any significant load on the supply. But this is supposed to be a DC supply - output AC equals zero.

The 317 regulator is internally defended against over-current and excessive dissipation (a problem I sometimes run into - joke). It passes excessive voltage along to the load. With the present transformer you will always be on the ragged edge of circuit failure, particularly when you adjust the output voltage low. Reducing the input to the regulator, to 25 VDC (filtered) from its present 24 VDC (pulsing average), will make the circuit perform as you think it should.

Though for class, this is maybe stuff you haven't seen yet which will come to take its pound of flesh from your backside.

Good luck with the circuit and with your newly chosen interest. Any additional questions - feel free.

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: DC Power Supply

05/27/2010 7:50 AM

Thank You very much, i believe you have explained why my lm317 only worked for a few minutes. i'm getting the full 37v now just as you mentioned and i checked the lm317 output and it was over 3v, i think it should be around 1.25v.

gotta get to class now. will inform of good fortune latter.........Hopefully .

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#20

Re: DC Power Supply

05/27/2010 2:23 PM

Mjb, i'm sorry i didn't answer those questions. I guess i overlooked them and was kinda overwhelmed with all the responses that were given. I did not have any requirements other than connecting a DVM to the output of this device and showing the instructor that it worked. Most of the others have a hi around 27V and a low of 1.25V. Depending on the transformer they used..i suppose. My problem of course was not realizing the pinout could be different than the schematics (which again, you made me feel a lot better about doing). Running behind as i have been doing i just wanted this thing to work for a few seconds ( is fine with me). So i did not use a heat sink and i think that is why it no longer works. So i will deal with that this evening.

One guy mentioned this morning about the voltage being too high and it all makes real good sense except for the fact that i know of about 20 of these things that work fine at least long enough to get signed off on .

I think this thing is way too simplistic, i'm guessing that our instructor just wanted us to do some heavy thinking and learning. I know it has work on me.

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: DC Power Supply

05/27/2010 3:09 PM

No apologies necessary. You are under no obligation to answer those questions. Since this was a basic project for the classroom, my intent to provide a robust design solution was unnecessary.

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