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Pf Correction for Car Alternator

05/25/2010 9:07 PM

Why don't car alternator manufacturers use pf correction at the source to improve efficiency? I want to connect to the grid a car alternator for a small wind turbine. Can a grid-tie inverter(Windy Boy) correct the pf at the load? Is that possible considering the power is rectified before connecting to the inverter? Is it feasible to use active pf correction at the source of a car alternator? Thank you in advance for your potential response.

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#1

Re: pf correction for car alternator

05/25/2010 9:42 PM

You look very far. Connect a battery to your alternator or your inverter will need to be corrected badly, instead of the power factor. The power factor is also created by your load, the source doesn't give you a lot of choice. You can try to charge a battery or remove the diodes and transform the voltage up with 3 transformers or a 3 phase transformer but a inverter will not appreciate a direct connection to the alternator.

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#2

Re: pf correction for car alternator

05/25/2010 9:49 PM

The most common indicator of automotive efficency is MPG. pf correction would not improve mileage.

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#3

Re: Pf Correction for Car Alternator

05/26/2010 11:09 PM

This is a non-issue. Pf is only a factor to consider in AC systems with reactive loads. Since the three phase AC generated by the alternator is immediately rectified to DC, it only sees a resistive load, so there is no Pf to worry about. The grid-tie inverter is going to take that pure DC and convert it to AC and it will deal with the Pf there.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Pf Correction for Car Alternator

05/27/2010 12:40 AM

GA

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Pf Correction for Car Alternator

05/27/2010 1:53 AM

Non-issue indeed, but I wonder what kind of product the inverter will produce with a 3 phase rectified pulsating non smoothened DC construction.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Pf Correction for Car Alternator

05/27/2010 2:21 AM

Well actually a battery is a fantastic smoothing capacitor, so quite a small one is enough. But if you put your wind turbine direct onto your inverter (without a battery) - it kills it - Or indeed output becomes a "Non-issue"

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#8
In reply to #3

Re: Pf Correction for Car Alternator

05/27/2010 3:08 AM

GA for a common good sense & correct answer.

The answers before yours were at best "Mixed!!"

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Pf Correction for Car Alternator

05/27/2010 7:51 AM

heh, thanks guys, I knew all those electronics courses would come in handy eventually....

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Pf Correction for Car Alternator

05/27/2010 10:31 AM

As my daddy used to say: Son, Watt is a Volt Amp? To which the reply was "Ohm my God Dad, Henry's Farad has got reVolting hysteresis and Coulomb's Amp is second"

(yeah, you had to be there)

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Pf Correction for Car Alternator

05/27/2010 11:59 AM

Nice one, haven't heard it for years!!

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: Pf Correction for Car Alternator

05/27/2010 12:35 PM

Wow! Is that what you call a Punundrum??? Nice one.

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#6

Re: Pf Correction for Car Alternator

05/27/2010 2:09 AM

Pf is not considered at the source, any source. It always depends on the inductive load placed on an AC system.

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#9

Re: Pf Correction for Car Alternator

05/27/2010 7:44 AM

a car alt. takes about 8 to 12 hp to run,, to get the full output,(50-65a),, I dont think you will find any "wind" unit that will provide that amount of hp. have tryed that many yrs ago,, a car alt, also needs to have a min rpm, adding to problem, if you get a strong wind as soon as the car alt kicks in it stalls the unit,, have even used a gas motor to try and get temp power,, and it stalled out a 10 hp motor,, not a good choice of power supply to start with,,, (try coils and maginets) will provide power at ALL speeds,, and has low torque,

good luck!! hope you find a way to get it to work,,,

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Anonymous Poster
#14
In reply to #9

Re: Pf Correction for Car Alternator

05/28/2010 11:17 PM

Something does not square up with the alternator stalling a 10HP motor. 65a @ 14volts = 910 watts of juice and that equates to approx 1.21HP of power output. Taking into consideration drag from the belt, bearings and inefficiency from heat loss and other variables, I don't see how i can stall out a 10HP motor. Maybe the motor was a dud, or the alternator was not working properly? I don't know maybe I have my math wrong but it does not seem that a car alternator could produce any viable power production without storing it into a battery at off peak times for later use.

by comparison a 4000 watt generator i have runs on a 8HP motor. Converting that to HP it equates to approx (4000watts / 120volts = 33.333333 Amps of power wich is 5.33HP with a loss of 2.67HP (APPROX) in the making. that's a loss of 33%.

The alternator you say takes 8-12HP to run at full production would be producing approx 8HP worth of power and at 14 volts thats 6000 watts of power wich in turn is

6000 watts / 14 volts = 428.57 Amps... even with a loss of 33% (APPROX) that still about 300 amps. that's NOT the case.

Anyway I'm just thinking out loud. There may be some flaw in my math but more or less that's the Calculations....

G

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Pf Correction for Car Alternator

05/28/2010 11:23 PM

Maybe you should try to realign the Dilithium Crystals to boost efficiency... :)

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#16

Re: Pf Correction for Car Alternator

05/29/2010 4:25 AM

If a 10HP motor is stalled by a (theoretically at least!) much smaller load, the problem is probably "gearing", that the motor was not able to achieve its optimum revs for max power......it may have been in a rev range that only produced 1 or 2 HP for example.....

I am assuming here that the alternator had an internal voltage regulator and that this was working properly, also that the battery was 12 volts (nominal) and was not producing a dead short, for example.....that there was not some other problems with the circuit.

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