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Power-User

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Load Calculation

05/30/2010 3:11 AM

Problems solvers Gentlemen.

our firm has been asked by owner of a 6 story commercial building all of them rented out.the building is being supplied through government 440v (phase to phase)..The energy recording meter of the governmentsupply is connected on the main supply and the owner has connected sub meters individually to all his tenants .the owner is billing them through these sub meters.now the owner has suddenly realized that the sum up of all the 6 sub meters does not tally with the main meter i.e sum meters reading is about 25% lower than actual reading.can my good friends suggests some valuable points to start this project.

the calibration of all meters will be carried out and the lighting and HAVC loads will be recorded for individual flats.Apart from this is there are any other valuable points to be taken into account.

on havc side only cooling is used no heating is done.

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#1

Re: load calculation

05/30/2010 4:05 AM

Are the meters electronic and what may be accuracy. In the unlikely event if the billing is md related that may be a cause.Otherwise The mismatch appears to be on the higher side. Thorough calibration check will usually reveal the cause of error . If all the branch meters record as per estimated usage then the main meter may be suspect. A sample survey may also be done. At any specified time say 11 am ask 7 persons to note down the respective meter readings same instant. Again at say 12 and at 1,2,3 pm record meter readings.This is may appear naive but is very reliable unobtrusive and does not require special instruments.

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Power-User

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: load calculation

05/30/2010 4:22 AM

thanks for your comments.meters are analog.

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Anonymous Poster
#3

Re: load calculation

05/30/2010 4:41 AM

Check your accuracy class of submeters and main meters. Find out the general land lord load like pumps, corridoor lighting etc whichever out side the appartments. calculate the difference if within the tolerence as per calibration.

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Power-User

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: load calculation

05/30/2010 5:05 AM

thanks .will follow your instruction when we will start the job tomorrow morning when the building will re-open after weekly holiday.all the building has been rented out to banks and one of the tenant has Servers supported by UPS of 70kva capacity.will furnish further complete technical details hopefully on 1st June 2010.

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Power-User

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#19
In reply to #3

Re: load calculation

06/01/2010 2:09 PM

Accuracy of all meters will be checked tomorrow i.e 02/06/2010

Salahuddin Zia

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#5

Re: load calculation

05/30/2010 6:19 AM

You may also have significant losses in transformers to reduce voltages to usable levels.

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Commentator

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#6

Re: load calculation

05/30/2010 7:55 AM

I think in these points

1- Meters of all same class

2-Check your cabling any overloads /wiring

3-Is the previous load calculation is correct

4- There is extra Power loss between the main meter and sub meters

recheck it replace or repair it ...

Regards

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#7

Re: load calculation

05/30/2010 8:20 AM

IMHO, there are two plausible scenarios. There are parasitic losses occurring between the main meter and the sub-meter. Parasitic losses can be the already mentioned transformer losses, along with other intended and unintended circuit paths prior to the customer's meters. Does your calculations include common area electric power loading like hall way lighting, cooling and elevator operations? With a mystery load greater than any of the individual expected load, I suspect that this will not be the explanation unless you've omitted the common area loads. What I next suspect is that there's a resolution problem between meters. This would likely happen if your main meter is not recording power usage at anywhere near even half it's range.

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#8

Re: load calculation

05/30/2010 8:57 AM

Does the wiring look like this???????

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Power-User

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#18
In reply to #8

Re: load calculation

06/01/2010 2:06 PM

No not at all

Salahuddin Zia

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Commentator

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#9

Re: load calculation

05/30/2010 9:39 AM

Measuring energy is easy, measuring contribution to electrical bill costs of each metered load is not. Better know what the difference is. Better know how your utility charges for power. Better know what kind of metering technology to use when getting contribution to costs. Better know the meaning of what I am talking about.

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#10

Re: load calculation

05/30/2010 1:10 PM

The following points may be checked.

1)Check whether the sub meters are electrmagnetic type and the main meter is electronic type. The errors in em type meters will be more and these errors are added up to make a difference like this.

2) check whether you have taken into consideration the common load metered seperately If not ,pl add this to the the total

But as per Indian electricity rules, only the local statutary body have the right to sell the power. So pl term it as occupants paying for the energy used metered by the main meter installed by GOVT.or else the individual meters to each premises is sealed and under the boards control with individual consumer numbers given by the board.

KT MENON

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Power-User

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: load calculation

05/30/2010 1:48 PM

Thanks for your guide lines.the sub meters are not sealed.the owner is paying the electric bill to the GOVT. as recorded on the main meter

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: load calculation

05/31/2010 4:25 AM

sounds like the goverment meters is cheating so the gov't gets extra $$, typical.

Get gov't meter checked.

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Power-User

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#13

Re: Load Calculation

05/31/2010 5:23 AM

Simple increase your KWH Charge by 30% and reap the rewards.

Cheers

Joe

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#17
In reply to #13

Re: Load Calculation

06/01/2010 2:04 PM

thanks for the advise but really i am in no mood that my head is broken into 30 pieces by the 6 tenants.

Salahuddin Zia

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#14

Re: Load Calculation

05/31/2010 6:18 AM

I would be very curious to see the facts before I took on this project! 25% losses are significant. The original installation of the sub-meters needs to be checked thoroughly and then you have to question what kind of sub-meters are being used. The accuracy is in question......Let's say that the meters are all calibrated and checked.

I may take some time to measure actual KW usage of the individual flats. May be a design flaw in the meters. Check the spec's on the MAIN supply meter and have it calibrated by the city government. If you divide the 6 flats into the low 25% reading it seems that each meter needs to adjusted by at least 4%. The owner can just figure 4% on top of each tenants bill after discussing it with them!! Just thoughts.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Load Calculation

05/31/2010 7:17 AM

well, I think the ratios are different than simply 4% each...more like 25% each.

lets say each tenant uses 100 KWH, x 6 tenants = 600 KWH, yet the city charges for 750 KWH (25%), the overage being 150 KWH, split equally this is 25 KWH each = 25%

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#16
In reply to #14

Re: Load Calculation

05/31/2010 8:31 AM

Ah yes, another sloppy use of terminology, leads to confusion.

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Anonymous Poster
#20

Re: Load Calculation

06/05/2010 12:10 PM

Dear Mr.Salhuddin,

Assalamu Alaikum

Actually there are some more loads like water motor pump, compund wall lights, etc which is not coming under the tenants meter. So this loads are coming under Main tariff meter.

Please consider this in your calculation of loads.

Regards,

Sikander
(sikander84@gmail.com)

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Power-User

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: Load Calculation

06/05/2010 1:41 PM

dear Sikander

thanks for your comments .we have taken all the loads as mentioned by you.we are over with individual loads of each tenants and calibration is almost over.we will comply the data on monday .than we will be able to find out the cause of this difference.

i would like to clear one point here that by mistake i had confirmed that the main meter is analog but it is Digital.morover their are two feeders feeding the premises ,hence two Digital meters in use.

also the tenant providing data server facilities to the banks has 2 no U.P.S of 160kva each.one of these ups serves as stand by.

regards

salahuddinzia@gmail.com

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