Previous in Forum: Strange 240V Motor Wiring   Next in Forum: How to Evaluate Measurement of Uncertainity After Calibration?
Close
Close
Close
10 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster

Cylinder Head Bolts

06/07/2010 10:55 AM

The last cylinder head gasket that i changed was on an Austin metro in the late 1990's. this had a cast iron block and alloy head. The gasket was a one piece type that needed to be stuck down with gasket sealant. It also had 3/8 unf studs that screwed into the block and then spring washer and nuts to hold the head down. The nuts had to be torqued down to 45 foot pounds. If you went to 50foot pounds the spring washers would bend out and the clamping of the cylinder head would be lost.

I was recently asked to change the head gasket on a Vauxhal Corsa 1.2. The head gasket on this was a three part composite type. And the head was held down with 10 mm set screws. That the manufacturers claimed they need to be changed at every head gasket change.

The head had to be torqued down to a initial load and then three more tightening down steps of 60degrees each. ( so after the toque was set the blots had to be moved 180 degrees or half a turn more to complete the operation.)

Now it seems strange to me that the cylinder head bolts are made of high tensile steel and have a strain rating of about 75 tonnes. But the cylinder block is of cast iron and has a strain rating of about 45 tonnes. So why do these bolts need to be changed as the threads in the block will be striped before the bolts fail.

And where dose the initial tightening toque come from. The 10 mm bolts have a 1.5mm pitch so when you move the bolt head 180 degrees the bolt head will move down to compress the head gasket by 0.75mm or 0.0295thou. the bolts are not going to stretch by 1/32nd of an inch.

it also said that the head may need to be skimmed if it is warped and how much material could safely be removed from the head. But it did not tell you that the cylinder head bolts need to be shortened by the same amount. So how do you know that the bolts are not bottoming out in the block and not pulling the head down at all.

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
3
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - Old Salt Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Rosedale, Maryland USA
Posts: 5197
Good Answers: 266
#1

Re: cylinder head bolts

06/07/2010 12:09 PM

Bolt stretch. Over time the bolts fatigue and stretch out. They expand and contract with the heat of the engine. Over years of service they all will not fatigue and stretch out the same. One that has stretch out more then the others will not have the same diameter. It with not expand and contract at the same rate as the others which may lead to premature head gasket failure. This more apt to be a problem with heads that have long bolts or different length bolts holding them down.

As far as the bolt bottoming out. Screw them into the block and measure the clearance under the head of the bolt to the top of the block. Then measure the head.

__________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty, pristine body but rather to come sliding in sideways, all used up and exclaiming, "Wow, what a ride!"
Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Vancleave, Ms about 30 miles inland from Biloxi and the coast
Posts: 3197
Good Answers: 106
#2
In reply to #1

Re: cylinder head bolts

06/07/2010 8:08 PM

I had a 1952 MG. When I had to change the head gasket, the head bolts had to be replaced with new ones. I tried to reuse the old bolts and ended up with several sheared bolts. Metallurgy wasn't great back then.

__________________
Mr.Ron from South Ms.
Reply
Guru
United States - Member - I am a Yankee Doodle Boy. Engineering Fields - Manufacturing Engineering - Old School is the best school. Safety - ESD - Safety Mgr that keeps the peace Hobbies - DIY Welding - My Motto:

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Broken Arrow, OK, USA
Posts: 838
Good Answers: 26
#5
In reply to #1

Re: cylinder head bolts

06/08/2010 8:37 AM

Excellent Ozzb precise and to the point. Not even any need for other to responde.

__________________
If necessity is the mother of invention then is laziness the mother of necessity?
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#3

Re: Cylinder Head Bolts

06/07/2010 10:46 PM

Most cylinder head bolts are "torque to yield". When properly tightened, the clamping force is more precise then with old style bolts torqued to a specific numeric value.

Reply
2
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1601
Good Answers: 58
#4

Re: Cylinder Head Bolts

06/08/2010 7:35 AM

First, I doubt the cylinder head is held down with set screws. It should be some type of cap screw. Second, people have learned that the old method of torquing to specified value leads to clamping errors due to friction variation. The current method involves the use of high tensile bolts and the elastic properties of the bolt to maintain the required tension. Because the torquing procedure stresses the bolt beyond its elastic limit, it is safer to use a new bolt each time the head is changed. How much you can safely remove from the head to flatten the surface varies with the engine design. Refer to manufacturer's recommendation, but don't remove more than required to achieve a true surface because every bit you remove increases the compression ratio. Lastly, locking washers never set the clamping force. The only benefit of locking washers is that should a bolt should become loose, they may prevent it from rattling out and becoming lost. The lock washers are flattened long before the required torque is reached. After that, they do nothing.

Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Anonymous Poster
#6
In reply to #4

Re: Cylinder Head Bolts

06/09/2010 9:43 AM

The differance between a set screw and a bolt is that a bolt is threaded for about 1 inch of it's length and the remainder of it's length is to a diameter of the thread but in a bar form.

A set screw is threaded all the way to the bottom of it's head. So a 10mm bolt will only be an 8.159 mm diameter bolt. The threads inside of the cylinder head are not doing anything and in theory could be ground off.

These set screws are 110mm long with a number 45 TX star head that has a flanged washer formed to the bottom of it, so the washer and bolt head are one piece.

How much compression can you put on to the head gasket is the real question. With a 1,5mm pitch on a 10mm bolt and a half a turn 180degrees the compression is 0.75mm plus the toque load.

So why use a toque setting at all. Why not say do the bolts up to finger tight and then tighten it up 3/4 of a turn(260 degrees). or 1.125mm.

The strain on the threads will depend on how Meany threads are in the cylinder block. the deeper the bolt goes into the block the more threads are used so the less of a load on each thread.

As the slandered temperature for manufacturing components is 20degrees Centigrade.

If the components are assembled at 0 degrees ( freezing point ) Then the metals would have contracted by about 2 thou per inch. So when the metal reaches its operating temperature it will have expanded and increasing the load on the bolts.

Reply
Associate
Hobbies - CNC - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 39
Good Answers: 2
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Cylinder Head Bolts

06/09/2010 11:03 AM

Well, I would call that a cap screw. A set screw either has no head at all, or has a square head, with the same dimensions as the dia. of the screw.

__________________
too soon old, too late smart
Reply Off Topic (Score 4)
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1601
Good Answers: 58
#8
In reply to #6

Re: Cylinder Head Bolts

06/09/2010 1:55 PM

Rick took the words out of my mouth and received some undeserved OTs for it. In my book, a set screw doesn't have a head. If a threaded fastener has a head, it is not a set screw. Guest is correct in that there are other torquing procedures such as finger tight, then XX degrees of rotation. That's how oil filters are installed. The engine manufacturer recommends his procedure for a reason. If you don't agree with it, you are free to change the method. As far as temperature is concerned, the final average compression of the gasket will be a function of the initial tension of the bolts, the initial temperatures of all the components, and the differential expansion of the block, head, and bolts. If the block, head and bolts are all iron and steel, the differential expansion will be close to 0, and the tension will not change with temperature. If the head is aluminum and the other 2 components are steel or iron, fastener tension will be a function of temperature.

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Cylinder Head Bolts

06/11/2010 7:46 AM

Both of the screws mentioned ones with heads and without heads are set screws because they are threaded all the way up.

The type that do not have a head are more commonly known as GRUB Screws. The applications for grub screws is in retaining sleeved bearings in position on a shaft. Or on electric motors to retain the pulleys. on some of these pulleys the boss is about 1.1/2 inches in diameter and the set screw needs to be screwed down on to the shaft and as the screw is about 1/2 inch long it would not reach the shaft if it had a head on it.

Some times two screws can be used to lock against each other in the pulley boss. This is termed as SCOTCH LOCKING. it acts in the same way as using two nuts locked against each other to stop them from coming loose. But in reality this dose not happen as the second nut removes the load on the first nut and turns it into a glorified spacer.

The set screw that has a square on it's top can be found on lathe tool post holders to enable the quick setting of the cutting tools.

But yes if the screw is threaded all of it's length then it is a set screw. With or without a head.

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#10

Re: Cylinder Head Bolts

06/14/2010 9:10 AM

With this type of job, do everything exactly the way the book tells you. This way you will not have to do the whole lot again in a month or so. These bolts stretch on the final tightening sequences they will not bottom out even if the head has been skimmed before. (there is a limit to the ammount that can be skimmed and this is taken into consideration when the bolts are manufactured). So use new bolts preferably all OEM parts and send the head for skimming if it needs it and don't forget to change the thermostat, flush the coolant system etc etc etc.... Happy motoring!

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Reply to Forum Thread 10 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (4); double_j_b (1); ozzb (1); RickZillman (1); ronseto (1); welderman (2)

Previous in Forum: Strange 240V Motor Wiring   Next in Forum: How to Evaluate Measurement of Uncertainity After Calibration?
You might be interested in: Bolts, Gaskets and Gasketing, Latches

Advertisement