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Commentator

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 75

Can I run this harmonic filter backwards?

02/20/2007 3:57 PM

Hello all

This question deals with whether or not this RF harmonic filter is symetrical input to output.

I have a ten-year-old Silicon Valley 450B RF amp being used as the IPA for a 25 kw FM transmitter. It is conservatively opperated at about 350w forward. I don't have reliable figures for reflected, but I have been told that these units were designed to operate into fairly high reflected values in this kind of situation. In any case, the unit has operated reliably for the last ten years or so with the exception of power supply failures (blown fuses) two times in that period.

The unit failed (registering excessive reflected on the lcd) last September. When I opened it up, I discovered that the pin inside the N type input connector to the harmonic filter had burned up.

I also discovered that the RF power from the amplifier module was routed (through that connector) to the OUTPUT of the filter whereas the INPUT connector of the filter assembly was routed to the external RF output of the unit--where the RG 213 cable connects to carry the power to the transmitter PA cavity. It obviously came from the factory this way.

The filter itself appears to be a straight forward design of four sections with five ceramic capacitors shunt and four open air coils of about three turns of perhaps 8 guage solid wire in series between them. The capacitors appear to be all the same however I cannot verify that without complete dissassembly and I hesitate to do that because I bet this thing was tuned by adjusting the spacing of the turns in the coils and I don't have equipment to sweep it and return it to spec after reassembly.

I intend to put the filter back in place as it was unless I get really good info otherwise. The manufacturing company has been notably less than helpful. Bottom line--does your experience tell you that filters of this type are symetrical, that is, they don't care which way you send the signal through? Or are they stagger tuned in some fashion to broad band across the 88MHz to 108MHz band--and would that make any difference? The amplifier itself is designated as a broadband amplifier and requires no tuning or configuration to operate across this bandwidth.

Looking forward to your input.

Lonnie

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Guru
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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#1

Re: Can I run this harmonic filter backwards?

02/21/2007 6:30 AM

I think the short answer is that it might be...

But the risk of it not being is too great so leave it as the manufacturer intended...

I worked on if strips for spectrum analysers at Marconi's and they were specifically designed for one way traffic only... the coupling K factors etc... would all be wrong back to front...

For example, the first stage may concentrate on eliminating a certain LO frequency which would swamp the following stages, so operating in reverse would be a no no.

If the stages are passive and appear to be the same component values and coupling factors it could be worth trying using a spectrum analyser on the output to check operation... But at 350 Watts.... Hummmmm perhaps not!!

John.

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Guru

Join Date: Sep 2006
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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Can I run this harmonic filter backwards?

02/21/2007 6:54 AM

Prudent reply.

-e

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Guru

Join Date: Feb 2006
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#3

Re: Can I run this harmonic filter backwards?

02/21/2007 7:03 AM

If the filter is a Passive filter it can be connected both ways in general, as those are mostly balanced - Symetrical.

Active filter use active coponents like [Vaccuum tube, transistors, ICs ] cannot be used back-wards

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Guru
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#4

Re: Can I run this harmonic filter backwards?

02/22/2007 3:58 PM

I would say replace the "N" connector and run with it. I would check the standing wave ratio at both the input and output of the filter after doing so though.

Bill

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Commentator

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 75
#5

Re: Can I run this harmonic filter backwards?

02/22/2007 5:05 PM

Thank you all for the input. We'll put it back together the way it was and see how it runs.

Lonnie

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Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 488
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Can I run this harmonic filter backwards?

03/12/2007 1:06 PM

I'd go with Electroman and europium on this. Particularly as there is another possible reason than stagger-tuning that it might be asymmetrical - some of those medium and high power filters were designed to act as impedance transformers. [On the other hand, if it was mounted back-to-front in the first place, that could be a reason for blown fuses]. Personally, I'd take the view that if it worked well enough, don't fix it

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