Lightning Arrestor

The large amount of current goes to the zero potential i.e. earth, We can not store the energy of lightning because the voltage produced by lightning is very high voltage and storation and proction is very diffcult.

You have to undertsand the phenomenon of Lightning first. Lightning is discharge of energy stored in the cloud formations abovehead to earth. Even without a lightning arrestor the lightning stroke will find its path to earth either thro the atomosphere (have you noticed the stepped leader - a flash of white light during lightning?) or thro any structure that comes in its path. The huge discharge current would cause damage to the structures if the lightning stroke finds a path thro them. So, we provide a low resistance path for the stroke to find its path to earth. And, that low-resistance device is called "Lightning Arrestor". It diverts the lightning stroke safely to earth rather than thro any other costly & important structure. So, whether thro the LA or thro any other means lightning current goes to (natural) earth only.

The problem with storing lightning energy is both the magnitude and duration. As already posted, there is no device found so far to "receive" and store the huge magnitude of lightning energy. Also, how do yoy capture such huge energy in, say, micro-seconds of the stroke duration?

But, that would be an innovative idea to store the lightning energy. If only we could .......

hmmmmmmm..... fine lets try to find some device that can store the lightning energy so that a large amount of energy can b utilised.........lets think

Welcome to this forum young lady, and i hope you will have a great time here.

Coming to lightning, Tesla is my favourite on this and other subjects.

Please study and let us know what you find...

cheers.

hi the link is very useful..... and i went thro that... from this we can infer that capacitors are good for instantaneous charging.....and cud u say wat is ur point of view??? but i dont hav any idea abt using it practicaly.....pls let me knw abt it....

Try this link ...

http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/semester2/c11_RC.html

_hi,

_{Is the lightning arrester reqd. for every building?}

_{i am asking this question because i live in pune [India] i have built own Wind mill and going to install it within 10- 15 days. The height of the building is @45 feet . and wind mill is @ 10 feet height.}

_{So is it necessary to protect from lightning and how?}

So basically if we could charge a capacitor as big as a house you would only recover barely enough energy to make a decent cuppa.

You got a GA from me!! I did the math about 10 times, on paper, using all the various values I could find from reputable sources, and didn't post it because I felt sure my numbers had to be flawed. But they match. If someone can prove that the math is bad, I'd LIKE to be corrected on it. OTOH, you've actually used some fairly conservative numbers, according to several University sources, and the US NOAA, that I've checked. You weren't trying, I suspect, to portray worst case, but if the "perfect" lightning storm hit us, even with that ambitious rig, there would still not be enough left of us and it to figure out what went wrong. And therein lies ANOTHER problem. Engineers, in converting theory to practice, HAVE to design for worst case, because, especially in cases where we're already working with explosive forces, the worst case is magnitudes worse, and the resulting calamity is magnitudes larger.

Witness the current Gulf leakage/BP oil problem. Huge resource of oil, but a WHOPPER when it fails.

Thanks for the GA!

Yes of course we engineers have to design for worst-case conditions. I did say to add, "a 250kA capable over-voltage discharge path to handle extreme events and protect the capacitors." These are actually fairly simple spark-gap structures, and quite practical to rely on. I've examined a set of them meant to protect $M-dollar HV Klystron tubes at a nearby accelerator center, and they consisted of 2 to 3-inch steel balls spaced about a half-inch to an inch apart, with positioning clamps to adjust the breakdown voltage. According to a NASA study on the probability of extreme events, 90 to 95% of the strikes would not activate our lightning protection device, and I think it should be able to safely handle the rest of what nature could throw at it. A 250kA strike is shown to be below the 0.5% probability level, and a 500kA strike at 0.01%. A 250kA-rated part might have to be replaced after such a strike.

[Hah, I was just a victim of a power failure (not a lightning strike), and thought my comment above, all ready to send, was lost. But no, CR4 remembered and put me right back where I was, comment and all. Nice.]

I did see that "overdrive" protection. I was really attempting to springboard off your good work to explain further why we don't try to store lightning, and what we'd face if we tried to do so, other than the fact that there just ain't all that much power available. Its just that what there is arrives so cotton-picking fast!

I had to design a lightning protection scheme for an exterior PA system, used on an Air Force Station in Colorado Springs, more years ago than I want to say, and a company called Lightning Elimination Associates came up with some basic MOV/Carbon Block spark gaps, which cost us about $3US apiece, in thousands (we stocked the base supply with enough of them to allow for 200 lost per strike, with 5 strikes per year, which might sound like a lot, but that area gets an incredible number, second in the US only to Homestead, FL, of cloud-to-ground strikes in any year. It wasn't excessive.), and the first time we had a storm, which was the day the installation was finished, they worked perfectly, snubbing the damage to 3 $15 speakers, about 20 of the snubbers (because of a lot of surge-coupling due to the ground charge), and about 70' of cable which had supplied the speakers. Everything else, including the AF folks working on the PA Amp racks came through unscathed. But it was a spectacular sight, for sure!

Lightning is fascinating, but that is because of the sheer force of delivery in such a short period of time. It surely LOOKS like it ought to be more power than it is.

And that, along with a lot of other physical events we can observe regularly, is proof enough of God's power, to me! But that's another discussion entirely.

Hi Poor Nima ,

I was thinking about this too at times . A problem that I see is that a normal lightening rod is a path of very little resistance for the current to go to earth . During a lightning storm lightning is attracted to the lightning rod because of this low resistance . If you introduce a load onto that system you make that resistance much greater which doesn't attract the lightning any more .

Here's an idea . Lightning also strikes power lines from time to time , most power lines have some sort of self resetting fuse which protects more delicate components along the line . Like transformers or your TV or computer ! I'm not exactly sure how it works though .

A device like this on your lightning rod would keep the low resistance path to be kept intact but MAYBE divert the electricity to one side for potential storage at the right time ?

Just brain storming a bit here !

Also would the electrolysis of water into Hydrogen and oxygen be possible from a lightning strike ? It would have to be sized appropriately , but should be able to cope with variations in voltage and current (Big question marks ???? ) .

Maybe you'd just have a big explosion with the electrolysis idea ? ( Big Bang ! ) (theory )

hi

if the electrolysis of water is possible from lightning then the sea water should be splitted..... is that happening?

i dont hav any abt it......

cud u briefly explain it?

Hi Poor Nima again !

Just some more ideas re. the Lightening Catcher , I'm not electrical engineer , just crazy thinker !

I was wondering what would a transformer do in the path of the lightning rod ?

This made me think , what about a heating element in the lightning rod circuit ? To heat or vapourise water to further power a steam turbine .

Another thought , If a car with rubber tyres gets hit by lightning which can happen doesn't the charge just spread out around the shell of the car to be dissipated the next time a connection is made to the earth , such as you opening the door from the outside or putting your feet on the ground from inside the car . Or am I just doting ?

With regards to putting a transformer in the path of the lightning, I tell you you exactly what happens from personal experience. The transformer windings melt, and puddle up in the bottom of the transformer. I suspect if one used an oil-filled transformer, it most likely would explode...

But let's assume it withstands the tremendous discharge; still you can't step-down DC current.

Yahlasit

Hi poor Nima again !

Was also wondering or thinking could rotational movement be produced in a special device in the process of transferring the current to ground ?

Ummmn . More ideas springing to mind , have to keeping thinking !

Bye for now !

hey this seems to b gud...

it is better to convert the energy rather than harnessing it.....

pls let me knw if u get idea.......

the lightning current goes to earth....now abt the concept of storing n harnessing..........the concept has been in discussion for a very very long time.....the problem with storage s that lightning s very unpredictable.....since its a natural phenomenon u cant expect wen it will hit and wit what capacity it will hit.........so protection of equipments used for storing lightning energy is not guaranteed.........some scientist had suggested abt connecting a series of large capacitors in parallel such tht number of large capacitors connected in series must be equal to tht connected in parallel...... i don ve much details on it....

hmmmmmm

ya v can connect capacitance in series and parallel but then the no. of capacitor requied wil b more...... which wil b coslty and practicaly not aplicable.......

i agree tht its very expensive but once if it succeeds (0.5%),you could light mumbai for decades.................and i think in a country like india this would be an outstanding achievement.............

Lightning also produces large quantities of ozone - which is present in the ozone layer surrounding the earth.

As we know, the ozone layer filters out most of the UV rays - preventing them from reaching the earth's surface.

Nature is doing such a fantastic work - free of cost.

Rajan

ur msg is very informative....

Dear Poornima,

Some small suggestions about CR4 protocol ... hope you won't mind...

• There is a "Rate" button on every comment. If you think an answer is good, and helps you, you can rate it "Good". It is a good way of thanking the respondent.
• While it is no problem to understand truncated and vowel-less words like one uses in SMSs, it is better to type correctly, since this international forum has people from all over the world, and proficiency in English varies widely.
• Do not divulge any personal data like email ID, phone number etc. It can be misused.

Dear other posters, "Poornima" is a nice feminine name, indicating full moon. Not Poor Nima, which of course means what it means Just a feeble joke, hope you don't mind.

hi

thanks for your explanation for my name.....

and sure i will give rating and i will not use truncated words......

Another point:Poorni is a homonym for an english word that has not- so- nice connotations.It would be better if she signed her full name(Poornima) instead of porni.

Such a beautiful name I would hate to see it disparaged.

HTRN

Have a look at this:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/03/100325-presidio-texas-battery

When lightning strikes a tree, it explodes because the sap is instantly converted to steam.Could we not find a way to utilize a similar effect with a very highly saline water solution and convert the strike to heat? I realize lightning is an unpredictable source, but it can be induced if conditions are right: balloons, etc.

HTRN

I think u have a very good point here, but in what form can the energy be stored? Is it as heat? That is also a wonderful and fantastic idea.

Factors that are considered in building an acceptable and reliable systems should include STEADY AVAILABILITY of PRODUCT to be processed.

Unlike SUN, WIND and RAIN that can be processed and stored, THUNDER STRIKE is a chanced issue that can happen only when there is a bombardment of thunder clouds. More so the point of strike is never fixed as it is completely depend on the direction of the wind.

So, I am of the opinion we let this project go for now on till we find a place were thunder strikes occur in per second chances.

Bye.

DICKSON

For those of you interested in an active program to "store" lightning, I once again suggest the link in my earlier post, about a big storage battery being built in Presidio, Texas specifically for that purpose. Again, the Link is:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/03/100325-presidio-texas-battery

Yes, thank you for the link. I had not followed it because I'd read about this installation earlier, probably from a story in the Transmission & Distribution World newsletter.

Although the article talks about lightning as the reason for building the new Presidio battery, it's not to store energy from lightning strikes, but rather to provide temporary power after a disruption, including from lightning strikes. "The battery system will have a fast response time to address voltage fluctuations and momentary outages. And it also is designed to supply uninterrupted power for up to eight hours." Apparently the remote location of this town meant they suffered frequent and prolonged outages from various causes.

Last night I watched an interesting program about Marfa, TX, and its famous Marfa lights. It seemed that Marfa was a very remote place, but Presidio is even more remote, with "one link to U.S. electrical power, stretching some 60 miles (100 kilometers) from Marfa in the high desert to the banks of the Rio Grande."

hello sir...

I am very happy to have you sir...

first i dont know what is quarter shrinker........i dont know that such a research is going on....because of you i got an idea about quarter shrinker sir....and i would like you to guide me and clarify my doubts.... please sir it is my request..please spare some of your valuable time with me sir.....

Lots of outstanding posts, and i for one have gained some knowledge from these.. thank you all.

As i said in my first post in this thread, i am an admirer of Tesla and have downloaded the YouTube videos starting with this one..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2g9hlDVjk8

Maybe another Tesla will come along, hopefully with another, more generous, JP Morgan ???

Hi Poor Nima !

Don't know if you are still around or Interested .

I don't why a lot of people around here are so dismissive of this idea .

The idea of a wild huge energy source is not new . Look at nuclear power . Enough energy to vaporise cities but can be controlled enough now to generate electricity cleanly and cheaply .

Some further thoughts about the lightning idea .

The car's metal shell and shape is known as a Faraday cage . An aircraft is similar .

I'm not sure if the full charge of a bolt of lightning strike remains surrounding the shell of the car or if it dissipates and if so how quickly ? But I'm trying to find out !

Also I see a possible mechanical way to harness the energy of the lightning bolt .
I'll be back to you . Have to think a bit more about it !

Moose:

Read post number 18, this thread. THERE JUST AIN'T NO HUGE AMOUNT OF POWER THERE! Do the math yourself. I did. His numbers agree. Its one pulse of about 300Whrs of energy. The only reason its so spectacular is that it is all dumped in such a short time! But its only enough energy, if you harvested ALL of it, to light a 100W bulb for three stinking, measly, hours! Its piddling, when you come right down to it. It ISN'T a "wild huge energy source". Its less power than your car battery stores, by magnitudes.

Think, man!

Hi

micahd02 and mjb1962853

I've read this whole thread again and I admit defeat in this lightning energy collection business .

Have to admit that the idea is completely unfeasible . But just out of curiosity I'm putting forward one last thought about the idea as if the idea was feasible .

Capture the lightning bolt using the capacitor setup or faraday cage as a temporary energy store .

Induce a secondary more controlled arc through an enclosure . The arc causes an air pressure change which is captured and used to generate electricity by more conventional means .

Just offering my thoughts here , sometimes completely crazy ideas lead on to different ideas .

Regards

Moose !

Opps! Sorry, I need to watch those units. Correction...

"15 [gallons] of gasoline" should be "15 [liters] of gasoline"

It is possible to gain some control over when and where lightning strikes. The following is an image extracted from a study done under the auspices of the Electric Power Research Institute at a facility especially designed to study lightning in Florida. To induce lightning, they would fire wire-tethered rockets into thunder heads. Not something I would recommend trying at home...

hi friends.....

it is very happy to see the response from you people......

when i posted this question i did not have even a small idea but now because of you people...... I am very much intrested to join you people in this research.....

well there is a lot of brain storming going on here,thanks for all the posts which brought some sense abt lightning ,

great job guys