Question About Castings

Just an idea, tell me if it's not that great.

Open the existing threaded holes up to remove the threads and pin the two pieces together? This might require a sleeve to fill any gap. Or, weld the threaded male ends to build them up and machine down to the new size. No welding required on the cast part.

Does that make any sense?

Hi lynlynch

Yes it makes sense. I believe that this would follow my thought of redrilling the holes, tapping them to a larger size and using new bolts to refasten the two pieces together. Thus there would be no welding on the cast. I like this idea the best because it would be a good job, without the hassle of welding. I believe it would be a quicker as well. Note that there are already two dowel pins in the assembly. I neglected to mention this previously. I would be putting those back to close tolerances as well.

My only concern is this.

How would I determine if I have destroyed the structural strength in doing this? If I drill and tap to a larger hole, won't I lose the integrity of the casting and thus risk it breaking due to less metal. The four holes are located on the four corners of the casting and on the top piece as well.

How can I determine if I will still have enough metal left to provide adequate strength after I make the holes bigger?

Having said that, should I thread both the top piece and the casting, as it was before, OR, should I thread the bottom casting only? I am not sure why both the top and bottom had been threaded originally, and I somehow think that this is what may be causing the bolts to shear, and the holes to strip. The bolts incidentally seem to always becoming loose as well. I am thinking that just threading the lower casting would prevent this, but I do not know.

What do you think?

welder40,

Welcome to the group. You need Milo. He has lots of metallurgical/manufacturing knowledge. There are others here who also know, but Sunday may not be the best day for contact. Since this is a world wide forum some members are asleep.

Pictures would help. It's easy to do.

This sounds like a good question for a Massey-Ferguson dealer.

Or, with some dimensions of how far the cap screw holes are from the outsides of the respective parts, the strength of the remaining material could be assessed.

Hi Tornado

Sorry about the double post. I messed up on the reply section here.

Anyway, just hold on for a bit and I will go take some measurements

Hi

The bottom casting is one and one quarter inches thick. The distance at present from the outer edge of the casting to the edge of the hole is three eights of an inch.

The present bolt size is seven eights of an inch in diameter.

I am not sure of the type of casting, whether it is cast steel or cast iron. If I could determine this, I may be able to build the outside of the casting up by welding to make it more than three eights of an inch at the edge of the holes. Any thoughts?

Here are some pictures

That says a lot. What were they casting big pieces like this out of 50 years ago?

I cant' help you. Maybe someone else can.

Hi lynlynch

Yes it makes sense. I believe that this would follow my thought of redrilling the holes, tapping them to a larger size and using new bolts to refasten the two pieces together. Thus there would be no welding on the cast. I like this idea the best because it would be a good job, without the hassle of welding. I believe it would be a quicker as well. Note that there are already two dowel pins in the assembly. I neglected to mention this previously. I would be putting those back to close tolerances as well.

My only concern is this.

How would I determine if I have destroyed the structural strength in doing this? If I drill and tap to a larger hole, won't I lose the integrity of the casting and thus risk it breaking due to less metal. The four holes are located on the four corners of the casting and on the top piece as well.

How can I determine if I will still have enough metal left to provide adequate strength after I make the holes bigger?

Having said that, should I thread both the top piece and the casting, as it was before, OR, should I thread the bottom casting only? I am not sure why both the top and bottom had been threaded originally, and I somehow think that this is what may be causing the bolts to shear, and the holes to strip. The bolts incidentally seem to always becoming loose as well. I am thinking that just threading the lower casting would prevent this, but I do not know.

What do you think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threaded_insert. These may be of help, it looks like they've come up with some improvements on these since the old days.

Hey pmoon, looks like we're on the same page. Look at the picture on the lower right, on the link I put in, I don't think I've seen that particular type before, looks like it would be tough though. Probably wouldn't hurt to throw on some big lock washers too, on reassembly, should keep them from vibrating loose again.

Yes; the self tapping insert might prove difficult if not impossible for a hole this size. But; it would preclude the purchase of the helicoil tap.

kramarat, pmoon,

I looked the "Helicoils in action" video on the right side of the page you provided, and they appear to be adequate for this application. I am worried about the amount of shock load, but they look like they will stand up to the load.

However, I do have a question about the helicoils installation.

When you look at the picture I provided, you will notice that there is a top plate, as mentioned previously, and a bottom casting. The casting on the bottom is threaded, and the top plate is threaded as well.

My question is this. How would I get the threads of the helicoils to match up when installed in both the top plate and the bottom casting? I am thinking that both sets of threads would have to match up, or when the bolt is threaded down through the top plate, it will not thread properly into the bottom casting.

Would this be a problem or would they match up OK?

Thanks for the links guys. I hadn't considered using this method. I appreciate the help.

Until the helicoil is "set" by torquing the components together, they will turn (not easily sometimes but they will turn). This should allow you to line everything up. Once lined up and tightened there should be no problem with future disassembly and reassembly.

With both pieces threaded you will definitely have to proceed with some thought, but I have no doubt you will succeed.

It looks like it may be necessary to thread the lower helicoil in and get it set, and then as far as I can tell you may have to cut off the little stop arm on the upper one, so the bolt can go all the way through. Possibly, thread upper one on bolt first, before installing. There probably won't be much movement in the lower one, but the upper should have enough play in it to get the threads to line up.

Just to touch on what Unredundent had to say for a moment: I didn't (still don't) question that both holes are the same diameter, judging from your (OP's) concern about the threads aligning. That also rules out shoulder bolts as the spline plate holes would have to be larger to accommodate them. It also doesn't seem as though drawing the plates tightly against each other really matters in as much as it wouldn't reduce the shear force against the bolts significantly.

The thought that the spline plate holes are threaded to assist in removing the spline plate from the spline shaft is a consideration. Although; I don't see anything to push against except the hydraulic motor housing. I suppose you could attach a slide hammer to them.

I'm not disregarding any of Unredundents comments, its just that since I started thinking about this some hours ago, I developed nearly the same questions, and resolved them to my satisfaction.

As far as developing your procedure for the repair using the helicoil approach goes, you should go through the specs on the site you were on before and make sure you are familiar with that information. Plus I feel vested in this operation now; and I want to see it completed successfully, so I'll be happy to give any help I can.

The "the little stop arm" is called the tang and fits into the end of the installation tool, and is meant to be snapped off when the installation is complete. The diameter of the helicoil before installation is much greater than the hole. So much so that it would fit too loosely on the bolt to allow it to be installed that way.

I did not know that both the plate and the backbone (I'm using your terminology, it seems to fit) holes were damaged. This may be a blessing as it allows the two helicoils to be adjusted independently to help bring them into alignment. It may be a curse in that either one could move to spoil the alignment. So I think setting one to prevent it from moving after it is positioned to provide the best chance of aligning it with the other, then aligning the other using the bolt is best.

Sorry for having been so verbose...I'm trying to keep my mind off some other things.

"It also doesn't seem as though drawing the plates tightly against each other really matters in as much as it wouldn't reduce the shear force against the bolts significantly."

To illustrate, try loosening the mount bolts on your clutch plate or taurus and pulling a hole shot.

I don't want to battle with you. My Intent is to help.

The "little stop arms"

Help keep the helicoils from backing out

digging in to the casting slightly

loose bolts are probably what started the downward spiral

as the locating pins got loose

the bolts having to carry an undue amount of the load, sheared

I was thinking it may be necessary to remove the tang on the upper coil, ideally, he will be able to find one helicoil that is long enough to go through both holes. If he does have to use two, I would think that he would want to remove the tang on the upper, before installation to prevent it from breaking off and falling into the lower hole and interfering with complete tightening. I'm just throwing out some thoughts that may come into play, as this situation is slightly unique, usually it's just one hole. I don't know if this unit has to come apart either, I'm not sure I wouldn't follow up with a weld where the plates meet after the bolts are installed, again, just a thought. Like you, I want to see the OP succeed, and get it put together so that this situation doesn't come up again.

It would definitely be better to tap both holes with the parts together, that's if the OP decides to tap both. I think he may go with just tapping the lower casting in order to bring the faying surfaces together as tightly as possible. That is most likely what the original design was as there seems to be evidence that the threads in the upper piece are "ghosts" from the previous bolting. I don't think that there is enough clearance to get the tap and installation tool in to do their job without disassembly though.

I really don't want or try to disregard what others have to offer, Even if I disagree, I try to point out that they are thoughtful worthwhile ideas. I do get frustrated with people that don't read the info in the OP, or don't follow the thread. Then I can get a little; oh I don't know, "upitty" (?).

Are the holes in the splined plate the same diameter as the holes in the casting it mounts on?

Could it be possible that the holes in the plate are puller holes used to pull the plate off the spline drive?

I can't figure two holes of the same thread diameter being able to be drawn up.

There where probably shoulder bolts, which would explain the "slop" you are getting with the fit.

I would follow Tornado's advice and get hold of a Massey parts breakdown.

Unredundant, I will be taking it apart sometime tomorrow (Hopefully) and will let you know more as I see it apart.

I believe that once the top shaft is taken out, the spline and motor just lifts out of the top plate easily, and does not require a puller. The spline is tapered from top to bottom if I am remembering what I saw correctly one time.

As I noted before, I also cannot see why there would be threads on the top plate in regards to drawing the assembly up tight, so I agree with your thought about this. However, there appears to be stripped threads showing in the top plate as well. So I do not know until I take it apart.

It is conceivable that in the past the wrong bolts were placed into service in this assembly, and the threads marks I am seeing in the top plate are actually scars, or imprints, from the bolt being threaded completely to the head of the bolt, and making impressions into the side of the top holes. As these four bolts are all that turns the entire boom left/right, there is a tremendous amount of shear forces taking place.

I can tell you that, 1. The bolts that have broken have sheared off at the intersection (apparently) where the two plates meet, and, 2. The bolts are threaded from the head down.

When I replace the bolts do you have any recommendations as to which grade I should use? I was going to use a very high grade, but apparently, while they have good tensile strength, the higher grade bolts are not very good for shear movement, which this application is.

If in fact the top plate bores are larger this would require shoulder bolts or hardened bushings to take up the slack. Any slop is going to amplify the shear forces especially when you change direction.

I would use the highest grade bolt I could get my hands on. Having said this, it occurred to me that you may not be able to find a bolt of this size in any grade that is threaded it's entire length.

Looking at the photo, the clamping action of the bolts provides friction between the two parts, so high torqueing of the bolts is required to give proper performance of the joint.If properly sized and torqued,and if the contact between the surfaces is not compromised by grease, oil etc.a Grade 9 bolt would be preferred.This is a special grade for heavy machinery purposes.I would also clean and degrease the contact area, and apply a hi strength loctite adhesive to the contact area.Torque the bolts to the maximum depending on diameter of bolt.Refer to a torqe chart.

All of the above to be considered after proper rethreading of bolt holes.I think the impression of theads in the top portion is the result of using an all-thread bolt instead of a shoulder bolt. The factory bolt may have had an enlarged shoulder at the top of the bolt and was replaced by an improper bolt in the past.Enlarging of this holes may have occured due to slop with an improper bolt, making proper torquing impossible.You may have to remachine or bush the holes.

Check with you dealer to verify the bolt type of the original part.

Hope this helps.

The part about one threaded piece on top of another sounds weird, so maybe some asking/brainstorming could help.

Are the threads in the upper (splined) piece genuine threads, or could they just be deposits in the thread spaces of a full-threaded cap screw, which might have been a makeshift repair for a full-shank cap screw? To me, it seems that the part of the screw in contact with the splined piece should have been unthreaded, and maybe even a ground-body screw. (Sometimes shelf items don't always replace specifically designed parts.)

Can you tell yet what the thread condition is like in the lower piece? I couldn't see any grade markings on the head of the remaining screw, and no paint remnants either. Maybe not an original part?

The bolts are principally in shear, and bearing in compression on the other parts, along the circumference of the bolt circle. Because of this, I am guessing that a bit of thinning in the web at the outer corners would not hurt. Further opinion on this would be desirable.

I will know more once I get it apart in regards to threads, etc. I will take some pictures of the parts and post as well. This may be of some help to others down the road who have to do this. I plan to do it once and do it well.

My primary thoughts are to re-tap the bottom holes in the casting for a larger bolt. Once this can be done satisfactorily, I would have the top piece holes bored to close tolerances for a shouldered bolt.

Tornado, after reading your last comment about making the hole larger, I agree that thinning the sides won't hurt. I pictured the top piece in my mind, and by looking at it from overhead, the four holes would still have most of the hole taking the forces that are applied to it from the sides. It makes good sense to me. Going from a seven eight diameter bolt to a fifteen sixteenth diameter bolt should not take away enough of the parent metal to do any harm.

I can have custom bolts turned for me from larger bolts if need be in order to get a good shoulder for the top portion of the bolt.

I'm thinking that I will go with just re-threading the lower casting, and boring out the top piece to accept a shouldered bolt.

As there is no way for the machine work to be good enough to allow all four bolts to take the sideways load of the assembly, am I right in assuming that that is the job of the two pins that are in the center of the top/bottom pieces?

If so I will have these looked at very closely and machined to precision if need be.

Thanks again to all for the thoughts. It has helped a great deal. I will post more as I go along for those who are interested. I should have some pictures over the next little bit after I get it apart. I don't know how well that will go yet as I will have to disconnect the hoses and block the boom up solid.

I'm thinking the threads in the lower piece are doing most of the holding, the upper threads may be to prevent "slop" once the bolt is in place. Doesn't hurt to throw out thoughts on this. It's even more important to correct the condition that allowed this to happen, as it is to get the plates rebolted.

If I understood correctly, some bolts are broken and need removing. You may find the following videos useful, it certainly helped me!

How to remove a broken stud or bolt NOT using a MIG welder

or

How to remove a broken Stud or bolt using a MIG Welder!!

More extraction methods

The HSS square cutters used on a lathe, ground the a long tapered square point make excellent extractors, much harder to break than a regular extractor. I have one made from 5/16" [8mm] stock that has been used to remove 100's of 1/4" [6mm] bolts

Another easy trick is to cut a slot with a cut off wheel & use a screwdriver or hand impact,

the welding a nut on the broken bolt trick, works better with a stick welder when dealing with larger sizes or hardened bolts

& if extracting bolts wasn't enough fun, broken taps takes it to a whole new level

Just how do you extract a broken tap? I must admit I did not know the welding method at the time!! But finding the right wire might be a bad problem......I would probably now try it with what I have........mild or stainless wire......first at least!!

I have used a Dremel on a broken tap for a friend who did just that a year or two ago, but it was SLOOOOOOWWWW shitty work!! I used dozens of small stone bits.....

By the way Garth, if you only have a MIG/MAG available, which one do you use? (Joke!!)

That MIG/MAG is almost standard home workshop for many today, I have done some brilliant (its so easy!! Not that I am so good....) work and repairs that I could never have achieved with stick, even if I had the equipment....Especially with stainless.......

I first learnt stick over 40 years ago, but have not done much since then.....

Looking at that video, it (MIG/MAG) works just fine on bolt extraction and I am sure that the wire fits in on smaller gauges of thread that the rod might eventually have problems with.

What do you think?

Have a great day in spite of me and please DO keep the good tips coming. I am sure I am not alone too!!

Flux core? It can be hard to get a good weld with wire down in a deep hole

Tap Extractor

of course then you break that off in the hole

plasma cutter or torch may help, or leave a nice hard chunk behind to break or dull the next tap...

No flux core, gas shielding.....75:25.

Flux core is stick on a roll & can give you better penetration on rusty or dirty surfaces.

Bear in mind that you generally need to switch the polarity [jumpers] when using flux core

It's hard to get enough heat with wire compared to using a 4-6mm stick

there is also a much wider array of materials available as sticks.

The thickness 20mm is beyond the capacity of most home mig machines

I must admit I haven't tried anything that thick, probably never will.

My point was that I would first try to weld with what I have before I go and buy a stick machine.....

The middle of the range machine that I have is great for the stuff I do......which is repairing heavy gardeniing equipment and lighter......I have not got around to ploughs, at least not yet!!

yes of course, always use the machine [equipment] you have

should you ever want to experiment

I would encourage you to buy small roll of flux core wire, it's easy to use, as long as you remember to use the right polarity & chip the slag between passes. having the flux in the middle, it is effectively smaller wire, so the settings need to be adjusted accordingly. there are wires of different compositions available, more so than plain wire

Just more arrows for the quiver

I am "Quivering" already!!!

What I feel is using helicoil may be the right choice, but still the measurements is important. However, I am new to your kind of industry and would like to learn many things from you all.

Thanks & Regards

Jash

Pioneer in Precision Surface Equipments.

Helicoils probably require the minimum size hole for their tap, but it is a special tap. There are other thread repair inserts available; I think most of them will use standard taps, but require a larger hole.

You said the holes go clear through. Is it possible to put a bolt in with a nut on the bottom? Or will the nut interfere with something as it goes around?

High strength bolts: The higher tensile strength is because the steel is a much stronger grade; thus the shear allowable will also be higher. No matter what the material strength, the shear allowable will be considerably less than the tensile allowable.

Helicoils use larger taps BUT THE SAME TPI as the original hole, so that the original bolt can be used once the Helicoil has been inserted.......

Usually, when going up a size in normal taps, the TPI changes as well, so that would not allow the use of the same bolt, but would need to be (probably!) a specially made bolt with the TPI of the larger one and the major diameter of the smaller one......

There are some threads where for two major diameters the TPI is the same, but as far as I remember that does not happen that often to be really useful.....

Hello all;

I have the assembly apart and will post more pictures later on. The Helicoils will cost me $310.00. I think the machine work will be the lest expensive route. It will also take three dasys for the kit to arrive.

Some quick info:

1. The top plate is all that has a spline in it. The spline from the swing motor extends ONLY to the bottom of the top plate. See the photos above in the previous post to get a better idea.

2. The bottom casting, which has two "flanges", has bushings in it. When it is installed on the machine, there is a large diameter pin (about 3" or less) which has a snap ring on the top. This pin goes down from the top and throught the bottom two flanges and through the main pivot on the machine.

3. Once the swing motor is off, access to the top of this pin and snap ring is right under the top plate. there is a large nut on the bottom, and once this off, then the pin comes upwards and is removed.

4. The top plate is splined to accomadate the swing motor spline. This is tapered and I removed it with a gentle tap of the hammer. It comes off easily.

More pictures and posts later

By the way, what does OP stand for?

Original Post (OP), or Original Poster (OP's).

Sounds like you'll keep us up to date. More than a few of us have taken interest.

That sounds expensive, but, I've never needed them that large before.

Pictures - If you get mixed up while scrolling through them, just remember that whatever description you happen to be reading, it will always refer to the photographi directly below that sentence. Always:)

1 Casting in place

2 removal of top plate and swing motor together

3 top piece and two flanges of casting

4 two flanges of casting and bottom pivot pin

5 nut on bottom of large pivot pin in bottom casting as viewed from underneath

6 left side of casting where top bolts on - shows the dowel pin, and sheared bolt

7 right side of casting where top bolts on - shows dowel pin, and sheared bolt

8 left side of top plate

9 right side of top plate

10 splined hole in top piece

The wear patterns and distorted holes in the splined plate tell me the sequence of failure was loose bolts followed by shearing of the pins.

It looks salvageable to me. If the spline plate didn't originally have shoulder bolts you can bore it to fit. I do not think the spline plate was threaded. I hope the drive shaft splines are ok.

I did a bit of research and found that swing motors had a lot of problems and people even replaced them with cylinders. Also, the parts are hard to find.

Anyway, it looks like your Massey is on the road to recovery.

My main concern is with the holes on the top plate being out of round. With the kind of force being put on this piece, it seems like there can be no room for any kind of movement. You may need to find a new top piece, or do some welding on those holes and redrill them to get them back within tolerance.

We should use this post as an example of how to provide meaningful information to the forum. Nicely done.

Thanks for your input. I was concerned as to what actually caused this to happen. I must confess that I let it go for too long before addressing the problem, and alas, I am into it now.

The splines are fine. There is a long bolt that passes from the underside and goes completely through (lengthwise) the center of the large pivot pin, and threads into the bottom of the spline. If you look at photo number 5, you will see the head of this bolt. The larger nut that you see in this photo is what holds the pivot pin in place. This keeps the pressure of the splines together. They are tapered so the bolt will always be drawing the splines into the receiver (top plate)

A previous poster had asked about nuts on the bottom. This cannot be done as there is only about one quarter of an inch clearance available.

Would you have any idea how the hydraulic rams were hooked up in order to convert this system over from a swing motor?

The only detail I got had to do with offset pivot points over-center to allow a full 180 degree swing.

There was no detail on the hydraulic systems changes, but I'm sure the detail is available. The only thing I can see changing is flow and volume.

Yup,some major trauma there.

I would highly recommend a visit to HeavyEquipmentForums.com and seek out a forum that addresses your machine type.

Not to deny that there is great help here but to emphasize that contact with the 'been there,done that' crowd can be of great help also.

And as has been pointed out here,there was a particular order of events in this failure which needs to be addressed also.I can nearly guarantee someone on the 'Heavy' forums has experienced this kind of disaster.

HTH

Jay.

Sounds like you're having some fun.

Your diagnosis of the bruising of the top plate by threads is very probably correct. There would be no way to tighten the assembly if both were threaded.

It seems that the intended design is for the four bolts to hold the assembly together. The dowels that have sheared are meant to be your torque bearing items rather than the bolts.

You must pay special attention to getting the match of the dowels correct so that there is no torsional movement. This is probably more important than the bolt detail for the quality and durability of the repair. If the dowel holes are pristine in both halves, the put in brand new dowels. If not, then you know what to do.

Bolts work in tension and MF would have built it that way.

(A similar arrangement is on the back of my old (1948) Fordson tractor, though I've got some castings failed caused by the retrofit of hydraulic blade on front with bolts in shear condition. Was likethat when I bought it.)

Have used hundreds of helicoils in smaller applications with good results.

Many good replies here.as always. I believe you have a mf 50 machine. some years ago I bought an mf70 which had been rolled and broke the entire casting that you are working on. I repaired it by using steel plate countoured to fit and welding in place using Low hyrogen welding rod smaw process. this lasted many years, so welding properly can be done on these castings. I believe using helicoils as suggested by many here is best process, and shoulder bolts of grade 8 will suffce. good luck.

You might want to try left-hand drill bits on the broken bolts.Sometimes this works well with little trouble.Start with a bit about half the bolt diameter, and work your way up in size.Sooner or later, the sidewalls of the bolt will weaken and the threads will give up their bite.I agree with what others have said about ensuring the proper fit of the dowel pins, these are the workhorses of the assembly.I would use shoulder bolts and if nescessay, remachine the top holes for a precise fit with the shoulders.A grade 9 bolt is not overkill if available.The grade 9 is designed for extreme strength, and can handle a lot more toque, which in turn will strengthen the connection between top and bottom halves.Lotite all hardware with red or green hi temperature loctite, because any loose hardware will lead to ultimate failure in the sytem.If clearances are close, and everything stays tight, the system will hold.

Good luck.

HTRN

Hello all. I must begin by saying a very big thank you for everyone who has posted their thoughts and ideas. Each suggestion always lead me to a different way of thinking about this, and in the end helped a lot. It was certainly worth the effort to post here.

I would like to ask a few more things if I can, but first an update:

Had the machine work done, and the dowel pins are now one and one sixteenth diameter and the fit is just great. The holes were re-drilled and tapped for one inch NC , and they too are very good.

The top piece didn't come out exactly right on because, 1. The holes were oblong and when they were reamed out to a larger size they found their own center. 2. I could have had the four holes re-welded shut, and then re-drilled but there were the concerns of costs, and time, as well as the hardness factor afterwards when it came time to redrill. This was a type of cast, and I was getting some help on the work so I didn't want to take advantage of the assistance I was getting.

With the dowel pins in excellent shape and fitting very well, the larger bolts should do the job when torqued down, and the pressure is applied between the two plates. The plates incidentally did not sit flat before. Now they do, so I reason that the friction will contribute to the holding grip as well as the bolts themselves.

Now for a new question. Can anyone tell me what type of cast this is by looking at the sparks in the picture?

I need to have the lug welded on the bottom of the swing motor as there are two cracks in it, however, I don't want to weld it without me knowing what type of cast it is first.

Also, does anyone know what this symbol stands for? I think it is the manufactor of the casting, so I would like to be able to track them down if I could only figure out who they are.

Again, hat's off to all, and many thanks.

http://www.masseyferguson.us/about-us/contact-us.html

This may be of help also. It is Massey Ferguson's contact page. They may be able to tell you exactly what kind of casting you have and how to weld.

welder40,

you probably already knew this, but be careful when welding on the motor, as the stray current can damage the bearings.

The piece to be welder will be taken off the motor in order to preheat and post heat once I determine what I have. I may be futher ahead to find a used bottom piece if I can.

Any idea what the symbol says? I'm wondering if anyone has seen it before and may know what the name of the company is.

http://www.cassiausa.com/, Kind of hard to read, but it could be these people, cassia, they do metal casting, located in Fla.

I would use a hi strength brazing to repair the cracks.Drill a hole at each end of the crack to stop the spreading, grind a generous v-groove from both sides of the crack if possible.Preheat to 500F before brazing(This can be done with a gas grill) and cool down slowly after brazing.Thermo Melt makes temperature indication crayons that can be used to determine temperature.Perform the brazing in small stitch-type sections, skipping and backfilling, allowing the heat to spread evenly toward the ends of the crack.Do the ends last.Peening around the crack area after each stitch will help relieve stress in the weld.

Put the piece back on the grill and turn off the heat and allow to cool down slowly.If available,place a piece of fiberglass insulation ove the workpiece to slow cooling.

Brazing is the way to go on cast iron or steel.

Good luck

HTRN

I sort of like the idea, but how would you get a crack clean enough so that the flux will run in properly and let the braze do a good job??

As unless you have access to X-Ray equipment, you aren't going to ever find out till it breaks again.

My thought was that you may need to hacksaw the crack and make it wider (as wide as the hacksaw blade's thickness), but somehow that sounds detrimental......

What do you Guys think?

Any thoughts with regard to outside usage and dissimilar metals too with brazing?

the part was made by cessna hydraulics which is now a div. of Eaton corp. at Hutchinson ks. google the casting no. perhaps or call factory Phone: 620-663-5751 Fax: 620-665-4162 Website:www.eaton.com

Here is a link to a cast welding rod that looks pretty good to me, if you must have weld instead of brazing:

http://www.muggyweld.com/cast1.html

Either way, dont forget to driill the holes at ends of crack to prevent stress risers from forming at the end of the crack.

(Copy and paste into browser)

HTRN

Either way, dont forget to driill the holes at ends of crack to prevent stress risers from forming at the end of the crack.

You MUST find the true end of the crack or it is liable to grow longer after the repair. As far as I know, this has to be done with magneflux or dye penetrant.

There are brazing alloys for many dissimilar metals available.Brazinig does not have to be brass.800F and above is considered brazing, below 800F is considered soldering.

The heat from brazing will burn any oily residue from the crack, and the purpose of the flux is to clean the surface to allow brazing to form a molecular bond with the base metal.The purpose of the grinding is to icreasethe surface area of the brazing.

I looked at the MuggyWeld site, and their process looks good, with an electrode that is machineable.May be even better than brazing.Check it out.They have videos of different repairs.

You have had a lot of good ideas so far. Without having the parts in hand I can't say exactly what approach I would take. However, I doubt that the top plate was threaded; most likely what you see is an imprint of the stud or bolt that went through it. The stripped threaded holes in the casting can be repaired by Helicoils or other types of thread repair inserts with one caviat; the clearance hole in the mating part must be smaller than the diameter of what ever type of insert you use. Beware of holes that have been distorted or elongated.

I am more concerned with the dowel pins that were sheared off. Bolts or studs are good for holding parts togather under tension, but they will fail under shear. This is the job of the dowel pins. But if the dowel pin holes have become enlarged by wear they will allow the assembly to rotate when loaded. Even a small amount of movement and impact can lead to their shearing and the resulting damage.

Check the fit of the dowel pins. They should be a light press fit. If there is any play the holes must be remachined for an oversized pin or filled and reamed to size

A little feedback PLEASE?

Are you addressing anyone in particular?

About something in particular?

Let us know, we will try and assist further....

Hello;

My apologies in not replying before this. Everyone has been a great help. Andy Germany, my question in post #57 was an open question to those reading the thread. I was just trying to determine what the casting was made from and who made it.

I have the piece taken off of the hydraulic swing motor.

It had been welded at some point in time previously, and the lug is made from mild steel. The plate itself is some type of cast. I have written to the above two places mentioned in the links provided above and am awaiting replies.

Kramarat now that you mentioned it, I think the casting could have been made by cassia. It appears to be that name to me. I have emailed them.

After I receive some replies back regarding my inquiries, I should be able to find a proper rod and method to weld and/or braze this together.

welder40,

As you mentioned this lug has repaired before, perhaps the design can be re-enforced or improved.

I assume this is an anchoring lug so that this lug is working against the motor torque and any forces involved with the bucket load?

You logged on as a "Guest", you did not reply to anyone in particular, so my questions were fully valid......look back, your mistake!!!

I did not write post #70 as "Guest". That was someone else.

I did not know you were responding to post #70 until just now when I looked back.

I thought you were addressing me in general regarding post #57. I did not realize that you were actually talking to "Guest". I thought you were addressing me; hence that is why I replied.

I am just learning how to post on this board so I do not know everything yet. I just noticed that one can reply not only to the forum in general, but also to an individual post. I did not realize this until now.

It is not my intention to start an argument.

Nor mine. I knew what I was doing........

You felt picked on totally wrongly!!

Yes, the motor is anchored to the machine via a horizontal bolt through the lug and then through a second lug on the machine. This holds the motor while the splined shaft turns the backhoe left/right.

I am not certain that anything could be modified as the fastening point on the machine is also a large cast unit. It would be simple if all the parts were made of steel. Then I could reshape things to fix the problem.

The design seems to be good. The bolts coming loose and hitting the lug caused the cracking. Now that that problem has been fixed by re-tapping and new dowel pins, the bolts will stay tight.