Stormwater Recharge (Perk Ponds)

If you can prove these ponds are at fault, sounds like you could get someone else to solve the problem for you.

One problem with basements is, as they age, they leak.

One other possible problem is that your own drain field could be plugged and causing all your excess water problems.

One way you might be able to tell where the water is coming from is to monitor when you observe leaks. If you observe leakage during storms, it is probably not the ponds. If you notice leaks only after the ponds have accumulated water that is a good indicator.

You might get advice from a local civil engineer who can look at the land and review soil absorption rates.

Also, look around for where your property may have had trenches dug for plumbing or wiring; water tends to follow old trenchlines.

Drew

So, were you there first? Then they built around you? If that's the case, you may have some recourse.

An idea of the chronology, terrain, soil, rainfall, home density and location will help. Don't get too specific on the location or you may have some CR4 members coming over for beers.

Storm drains lead to the storm pond. A ponds purpose is to fold extend the about of time it takes for storm-water to enter in a creek system and/or perk back into the ground. A is a place to put the excess water from a storm event.

Where in his two sentence does he say "commercial facilities" he says developments, which more then likely refers to homes and not warehouses, factories, etc. Where do you get a sanitary sewer system from a septic system. It's pretty easy to tell what your hooked up to.

EPA under NPDES is turning away from connecting sewer systems to storm-water systems and vise versa the are usually totally separate systems.

How can a solution be given when you haven't the foggiest what the problem is?

The OP specifically mentioned "perk ponds". The only sites I am aware of that use "perk ponds" or holding ponds are commercial facilities- apartment complexes with large parking areas or other structures that have large parking areas- multi-family housing tracts have enough open land that they do not require such ponds.

Those ponds function exactly as I described them.

I referenced the OP's statement regarding septic system, but I know of no septic system that gets so flooded that it cannot continue to leach out, unless- as another responder mentioned WAS NOT stated by the OP that he had a flooded yard. The OP's issue was water coming into the basement and a sanitary system that was not operating properly.

I am VERY familiar with every style of sewer system, including specialty ones like AAO (acids, alkalies and oil) and kitchen grease trap drainage.

And- YES, the EPA is trying to require all NEW installations to be separate storm and sanitary flows- to eliminate the condition described and- even more importantly, to prevent huge rushes of water from overwhelming the sanitary treatment plants and causing untreated sanitary sewage to be released to rivers, lakes, etc. during these conditions. However, MOST existing cities and towns have a significant amount of combined sewers because "that is the way it was done" for many decades and because no one- including the EPA has access the trillions of dollars it will take to totally remediate those existing installations.

Storm ponds as you described do what you stated, but they also DO NOT cause the problems that the OP was describing. They simply extend the percolation time or prevent flooding of run-off creeks or other spill ways.

Before you decide that a responder is an uneducated dolt, READ the post to see if it relates to the stated problem and possibly presents a solution. IF what the poster has stated is- based on YOUR specific knowledge and experience- incorrect in some way, then explain the error and present an alternate solution. Don't just take pot shots at something because you don't have a better solution.

I think we have been abandoned by the OP, clarifying your point is ok but arguing only makes us all look uneducated dolts.

Anon

The problem is your making assumptions on facts that are not there. As a scientist and engineer how can you give a workable solution with-out the facts.

PA has Perk ponds or storm water ponds all over they are just near commercial facilities and home developments. The fact is he stated development and DIDN"T STATE WHAT IT WAS commerical or home. Which you know could make a big difference in determing the stormwater system and design.

Fact the Guess states septic. You say he's wrong and it's a sewer system "NOT A FACT".

I seen many storm-water ponds cause similar problems. Over saturating soils and flood basements and septic systems. That's one of the problems with them.

I have no problems with anyone giving suggestions but at least base it on the facts at hand.

The problem with the post is he really is giving very little information for any sort of solution to be given back.

Just assuming facts that aren't there and giving answers is not a solution.

I agree with the answer you gave for the particular problem YOU came up with, but you are ASSUMING that it is the Guess's problem.

By the way read the Guess's reply #11.

You do know what ASSUME mines right.

If the ponds and runoff from these developments are the problem, then I would expect your yard to be turning into a swamp.

I don't know where you are located, or what soil types you have to deal with.

With more information, we may be able to help you more.

If you think you have water problems, try living in the Willamette Valley in Oregon.

We measure annual rainfall in feet, not inches.

The developments I mentioned are residential single family homes. when the developments started the storm and sanitary had to be raised some 30 inches from what was planned do to shallow ground water.

The flooding in my basement comes from cracks in the floor and where the basement walls meet the floor. If it is a heavy rain (close to 1" per hour) it takes a few hours before the flooding starts.

I now have 3 industrial sump pumps and currently today, these three pumps are handling 6000 gallons a day. Just two weeks ago it was near 10,000 gallons a day. Shortly after the perk ponds are empty my pumping slows tremendously, however the pumping has not completely stopped for over three years now.

A core boring 100 feet from my property shows the groundwater level at just 26" below surface.

During a very wet period 2 years ago I had my septic tank pumped and they filled 2 trucks some 6000 or more gallons of water. The tank just kept filling up from the leach field with clear water. After filling the two trucks we gave up.

It has been mentioned that the perk ponds (nearest id only 500 feet away from my home) is causing "ground water mounding". It was also mentioned that the subsurface water is following a fracture in the ground.

I have lived in the home for 21 years and this was not an issue until the developments came about. Before the developments, during the wet season my sump system handled the water. However, it never amounted to the volume of water we pump now.

Contact your local council and inform them of your observations. You may need a sand-mound and lift station for your septic system (common in Florida).

If you can prove that your water problems are due to recent development, they should be responsible for a remedy. A civil engineer should be able to substantiate your claims and testify on your behalf. If your claim proves valid, you should be able to bill the developer for the civil engineer's fees.

If you are unable to find any success with that, you may have to remedy the problem yourself. A civil engineer should be able to advise you accurately for a small fee. You might find a local landscaper who is familiar with the area that will try to help, but a registered civil engineer will be able to advise you with certainty and with some level or recourse if the advice proves inaccurate (which you probably will not get from a landscaper).

I am not a civil engineer, but I strongly recommend them because this is part of what they do when planning a development.

Drew

I agree with your statement.

Have you checked on a possible under-ground stream that might be perking through the cracks thats a lot of water on a daily basis.

I must agree with both DrewK and JohnBaker's statements above. It is essential that you obtain the services of a Licensed Professional Engineer (Civil Eng.) that specializes in Hydrology and Groundwater Hydraulics issues in order to actually pin down the flooding causes. Please keep in mind that flooding of a basement and the rise of groundwater may be caused by any number of conditions and it is essential that the Engineer can firmly establish the flooding problems, otherwise going to court without rock solid evidence will be a waste of your time and money. Be prepared to spend tens of thousands of dollars for field testing alone in addition to engineering modeling/analysis.

Also, talk to your neighbors, both located immediately nearby and far flung, but located near any of stormwater ponds and see if they are experiencing flooding problems as well. Foremost, keep very good and thorough records of each and every discussion you have with others, including town employees and officials. Make sure your local municipal officials know of the problems you are experiencing. Remember, "the squeaky wheel gets the oil...". You'd be surprised when a whole host of constituents arrive at the next town meeting and actually voice their displeasure. Only then do elected officials actually sit up and take notice.

I've never liked the term "Perk Ponds" or "Percolation Ponds", a term that is kind of a misnomer in my experience. The stormwater management ponds may actually be stormwater detention ponds or stormwater retention ponds, or a combination thereof, which may be designed or not designed to actually allow percolation of accumulated stormwater runoff.

Also of great importance is whether your local municipality through their subdivision regulations/Zoning Code require an independent "Town Designated Engineer" to check the proposed design drawings submitted by the subdivision developer prior to construction. The services of the TDE would be paid for out of an Escrow Account with funds deposited by the developer. This is important information that you must obtain if it exists. Generally, the findings (incl. Engineering Reports, correspondence and public presentations and testimony) of the TWE is a matter of public record. Remember, you can always file a FOIL with your municipality if they a reluctant to provide the information that you request.

BTW, where are you located "Guest"?

Write back and let us know what is transpiring regarding this issue, okay?

Signed,

CaptMoosie, LPE, PhD

Civil Engineer in NYS

It might not necessarily cost you thousands of dollars. If you get a Civil Engineer to come by and take an estimate, he may have some insight and will give you an idea how much it would cost in total to research.

Also, your town council may send one of their civil engineers around to determine the cause without charging you at all.

Drew

I'am located in Will County in Illinois. In another area about 1/2 mile from my home a similar situation (excessive pumping) was investigated by a Hydro Geologist.

After a couple of months and many tests he recommended that the "Perc Ponds" be sealed and more area for compensatory storage be purchased. The Local municipality installed outside sump systems for 12 or so homes, and never sealed the ponds. The homes that received the outside sump systems now pump from outside the homes, but the volume has not decreased. The local municipality will do no more.

With a current core boring showing ground water at 26" from the surface, and groundwater hit at 36" from surface during the construction of the developments, shouldn't this have been a sign not to use recharge? Is there any codes or standards?

I read in a document (USGS 1959) that if the seasonal high water table is less than 3 meters from the surface, ground water recharge will likely not work and or cause adversities.

I have on several occasions pumped well over 10,000 gallons from 1 sump pit in a 24 hour period.

Dear Guest:

Based on the information that you have provided so far, at first glance it appears to me that the stormwater management basins (for a better ID term) which were built to for service the newer subdivisions around your and your immediate neighbor's parcels, may be the culprit of your nearly year round high groundwater levels that have resulting in your basement and septic system flooding problems. This is the best guesstimate from me, and not based on field testing, data and observations in and around the area of concern.

One of the most important questions that I'm going to ask you is this: Following the completion of the new subdivisions and their respective basins built around you (you were there first pursuant to your info supplied to this forum), do you have any information whether the stormwater management basins were ever "GRANTED" or "CONVEYED" to your township/municipality? If not, who would be the OWNER of those basins as well who is responsible for their care and perpetual maintenance? You need to find the answers to these question before proceeding further.

In my estimation, the municipality made a half-baked attempt installing those groundwater pumps on your lands and your neighbors lands...all to placate you all and deflect any further attempts to rectify a serious shallow groundwater problems most likely caused by the basins. Also, I strongly feel that prior to accepting the conveyance of the basins the local municipality should have made every attempt at it's disposal, including an independent engineering evaluation and certification that the basins were safe and complied with good engineering design principles and practices and would not in any way encumber existing properties and the improvements therein.

Since your basement and you septic system have been compromised by the shallow groundwater levels obviously caused by the basins in those newer subdivisions ever since their construction, it it my firm belief that such groundwater levels comprise a public health hazard to you, your neighbors, and the general public at large. The basement flooding can cause mold growth problems as well as introduce septic waste from the failed system(s) into the house. If you have a drinking water well that you use for domestic consumption the same septic waste can possibly cause health related problems. You also have forced to pay for electrical power consumption for the town installed pumps on your property, what for, perpetuality?

My suggestion to you is that you and your affected neighbors collectively hire a civil engineer to assess the situation. You may also have to hire a geotechnical engineer and a hydrologist.

Following the issuance of the Engineer's Report, and depending on the final assessments, you and your neighbors may want to hire an attorney and file a class action lawsuit against: the local municipality, the developers of each subdivision, the town designated engineers for each subdivision, the Engineers of Record for each subdivision, and the Contractor for each subdivision that installed the infrastructure as well as the stormwater management basins.

I hope this direction helps you...

===CaptMoosie, LPE

New York