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Anonymous Poster

LEDs For Small Studio Scenario

07/14/2010 4:09 AM

Greets,

General advice query about setting up a small claymation studio using LED lighting. Fair warning - I know nothing about electronics, and am humbly trawling your fair land in hopes of free advice :) The requirements (and reasons for using LEDs) are: small scale (tabletop), dimmable, cool (so we don't melt the models), constant (so there is no flicker when the captured frames are re-assembled into footage). Being able to tune the colours would be a big advantage, and allow us to avoid using gobos and filters. Will need multiple light sources/units, all adjustable in terms of intensity, direction and light shape. The key question is this: as a non-techie, should I try to wire some units up myself to save $, or would I be better off shelling out for pre-made units? What am I likely to be overlooking in planning this? Any tips on where to purchase components etc (I'm in Australia)? Thanks in advance for taking the time to read/reply. AJB

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#1

Re: Animator trying to use LEDs for small studio scenario

07/14/2010 4:25 AM

It's all about the trade off between time and money.
The short answer is buy some dimable units. If you aren't into electronics and aren't doing it to learn you will waste time and money and gain no pleasure.
A little story if I might...
When I first started out playing with electronics I was selling Hi-Fi and components in Soho London. A regular customer from a theatre wanted to dim some lights... I sold him some high power variable resistors (having done a quick 'back of an envelope' calculation). He came back a few days later with them all burn out. The manager refunded his cash and gave me a ticking off.
Electronics is easy in theory, but much trickier in practice.
Take my advice and save yourself a lot of grief.
Anyhow the kit you buy will get used again and again...and again
Del
(BTW, the claymation project sounds sooo much fun, my fave toy as a kid was Plasticine)

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#2

Re: Animator trying to use LEDs for small studio scenario

07/14/2010 6:06 AM

Agree with Del, unless you're talking very small scale stuff.

Can you give us an idea of the scale? How much lighting would you expect to need if you were using, say, low voltage halogen lamps (wattage and no. of lamps)?

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#5
In reply to #2

Re: Animator trying to use LEDs for small studio scenario

07/14/2010 11:05 PM
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#3

Re: Animator trying to use LEDs for small studio scenario

07/14/2010 8:28 AM

Sounds like a cool project. Offhand, I agree with Del. If you don't know anything about electronics and LEDs you could waste a lot of your time, energy and money. It would be best to get some off the shelf assemblies that are ready to use.

Having said that, I'd caution you that you may have trouble finding what you need. You can get Red, Green and Blue LEDs, but they won't give you quite the same lighting as traditional Red, Green and Blue incandescent lamps used in theaters. You'll probably need to supplement their lighting with phosphor-type 'cool white' LEDs and Yellow LEDs. You'll also need to keep the LEDs cool (with fans) because as LEDs get hot, the output intensity of the Red and Yellow ones will drop off compared to the Green, Blue and White ones, which will give you a blue-green color shift.

To avoid any flicker effects (strobe effects) between the lighting and your camera you'll either want to run the LEDs either via current-controlled DC power or high-frequency pulse-width-modulation (PWM). You'll also have to think about whether you want spot lighting or flood lighting, or a combination.

The folks at Rosco specialize in all kinds of lighting for a wide variety of industries but especially for theater. They can be very helpful. Here's a link to their Australian website: http://www.rosco.com/australia/index.asp

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Animator trying to use LEDs for small studio scenario

07/14/2010 9:26 PM

wow, you guys are fast. Much appreciated. Very interesting to hear that the leds would colour shift at temperature! Not sure what the answer is there - fans sound a bit of a hassle... maybe I can fix that in post. Will also look out for DC current controller - thanks. I think it will be best to stick with what I know and either shell out for off the shelf units, or contract someone to wire up some units for me. Thanks guys, this really helped.

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#6

Re: LEDs For Small Studio Scenario

07/15/2010 9:17 AM

If your use is general and not critical then the previous advice is very good. But...

One point I believe you should keep in mind is the color of the LED light. Even though you may be using white LED's they may not look white to the camera/CCD. The LED's could be warm white, cool white, etc., which you should be able to see in the LED specs via the color temperature rating in kelvin. Incandescent and halogen lamps have color temps of around 2700 to 3000K or so. Think of it in terms of tungsten film versus daylight film. Also another important consideration is the CRI rating. CRI = Color Rendering Index in layman terms is the ability of a light source to make colors look correct. This is a rating from 1 to 100 with 100 being the best rendition of color. For example a CRI of 100 makes the color red look red and not purpleish nor pinkish. Incandescent lighting has a CRI of 99 to 100 which is why photographers and film makers don't worry about CRI. When using LED's and even fluroescent lighting CRI could be a factor. I work for a lighting company in the Quality department and in our photometry lab I have tested all types of light sources. I have found that the light and color quality of LED's are good for general purpose lighting in the consumer market. But if you want to use these in an aplication where good color rendition is paramount then you really should look critically at the ratings. Hopefully the manufacturer is making their products to their specs, which I have seen is not always the case. Many manufacturers are cashing in on the LED craze so I would caution you to really do your reasearch and buy good quality lighting. There is a wide range of prices and there is a lot of junk at all price levels. This applies as well to fluorescent lighting (CFL as well). By the way the CRI for CFL's usually fall around 80 to 85.

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: LEDs For Small Studio Scenario

07/16/2010 1:04 AM

Thanks, I am aware of CRI and the variable quality of lights of all kinds. Being necessarily involved in colour correction and post-processing I often don't worry too much (I know, I know, lazy answer). Also, the lighting (and lighting colour) is often 'dramatic' rather than realistic, so between this and the post correction I'm not too worried about that. More important would be consistency - both between individual bulbs of the same spec and over time. I guess I just have to hope that these companies are consistently inconsistent! But I concur - good answer. AJB

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#12
In reply to #9

Re: LEDs For Small Studio Scenario

07/16/2010 8:04 AM

I'm glad to hear you are aware of the color quality issue, I don't like to see anyone's hard earned money go to waste. If I may suggest to you that if it is within your budget take a good look at Philips LED's, I've found they are more consistent than many others. I don't work for them nor get any benefit from suggesting their produtcs, even though they are my competitor. But I believe it is only fair to acknowledge companies with good engineering that are really working to make good products.

Good Luck!

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#14
In reply to #12

Re: LEDs For Small Studio Scenario

07/16/2010 11:54 PM

FYI:

Colorkinetics are Phillips LED's (see post 7)

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#7

Re: LEDs For Small Studio Scenario

07/15/2010 12:35 PM
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#8

Re: LEDs For Small Studio Scenario

07/15/2010 4:53 PM

Before you get to involved, try a simple experiment.

Go to your local radio shack type store. Get two D size cells (flashlight batteries); a battery holder; a few leds of the required color. Connect the negative leg of the LED to the negative battery clip, same for the positive.

See if that is the direction you want to go.

Another option is try a string of christmass tree lights.

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: LEDs For Small Studio Scenario

07/16/2010 2:21 AM

Wouldn't a current limiting resistor be required?

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#11

Re: LEDs For Small Studio Scenario

07/16/2010 4:52 AM

Another thought is to use fibre optics, your light source can be remote & can be LED or any other type of light. You would contain this in a box then position fibre optic strands to illuminate your scene. This would keep the heat well away from your models & allow you to use colour filters, dimmers etc without having to worry about the size of these interfering with your scene.

You can buy fibre optic lights but they are just a light in a box with a bundle of fibres attached so I'm sure you could make this yourself. Fibre bundles are cheaply available.

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: LEDs For Small Studio Scenario

07/16/2010 11:51 PM

If you don't take my advice, as many of the LED fixtures in the links I posted are specifically designed for film/video, then I definitely recommend Nigh's recommendation as being comparably good.

The iW Blast listed in the colorkinetics link comes in two varieties, one is 3 color mixing and will give you a variety of near white shades along with just about any other color you could desire and the other is a two tone white (one warm one cool) allowing you to adjust your white tone. These would be my 1st recommendation. My 2nd recommendation would be to use fiber-optics to transmit whatever light source you choose to use for the reasons Nigh listed.

If you need 'practicals' (porch lights, street lights or other light sources present IN your model as opposed to the lighting being used for general illumination of your model) then fiber-optic gives you the option to put an actual light source in it, adding to the perceived reality of your scene, without having to use more light sources as one light source can service many fiber lines which are fairly simple to install into a model.

GA Nigh!

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