Previous in Forum: Trial Software Has Control After Trial-Period   Next in Forum: Software for Design of Fiber Lasers
Close
Close
Close
10 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Power-User
Belgium - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Flanders (Belgium)
Posts: 343
Good Answers: 21

Harmonic Content, FFT, DFT, and Fourier Analysis in EXCEL

07/15/2010 5:10 AM

Good morning smart brains all over the planet.

I'm looking for a solution to find the amount of different sinus components within a set of samples.

I have a table with 36 different measuring points and I want to find the relation between these points.

The measuring points are all values from a fundamental and its higher harmonics.

The measured points are exactly repeated after 36 samples. This means that I'm looking for a sinus that exactly matches within these 36 points.

Further I want to know the overtones from this sinus. And for each sinus I need the amplitude and its relative angle. (the complex values are also good)

I want to make this application in Excel.

I have following problems. Excel has an inbuilt FFT but it needs a number of samples equal to a power of 2. Adding additional zero's as values for measure points 37 to 64, makes an unacceptable error.

I can' t solve it mathematical because I don't have a function, only measuring points.

Can anyone guide me in the right direction?

Thanks a lot.

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#1

Re: Harmonic content, FFT, DFT, Fourrier analyse in EXCEL

07/15/2010 5:45 AM

Have you tried 'stretching' the input data to 64 points, using interpolation to spread the 36 values?

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply
Power-User
Belgium - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Flanders (Belgium)
Posts: 343
Good Answers: 21
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Harmonic content, FFT, DFT, Fourrier analyse in EXCEL

07/15/2010 7:56 AM

Nope, but I will try to strech the data.

I hope you mean that I create additional fictive points that are interpollated between the original measuring points ?

Isn't there a Discrete Fourrier Transform in Excel ?

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Harmonic content, FFT, DFT, Fourrier analyse in EXCEL

07/15/2010 10:46 AM

"I hope you mean that I create additional fictive points that are interpollated between the original measuring points ?"

Yes. As a trivial example, here's a data set of 5 points:

00
13
20
3-3
40

... and the plot:

Here it is stretched to 8 points, using linear interpolation:

00
1.141.714286
2.292.571429
3.430.857143
4.57-0.85714
5.71-2.57143
6.86-1.71429
8.000

... and the plot:

Sorry, can't help with the discrete FT.

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply
Guru
Panama - Member - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Panama
Posts: 4273
Good Answers: 213
#4

Re: Harmonic Content, FFT, DFT, and Fourier Analysis in EXCEL

07/15/2010 11:12 PM

Have you tried adding half your zeros at the beginning of the signal train, and half at the end? The other option is to clip your data to 32 points, then run the FFT four more times, shifting the data window up one data point each time. Fortunately, the Excel FFT runs pretty fast, especially with the small amount of data you are dealing with. If you have good data, you should not see too much change in the transform as you shift the window...

Thirty six data points is a pretty short data record...I'm not sure your results are going to be valid with only 36 data points...

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hemel Hempstead, UK
Posts: 5826
Good Answers: 322
#5

Re: Harmonic Content, FFT, DFT, and Fourier Analysis in EXCEL

07/16/2010 3:11 AM

I haven't got a clue what you're talking about here: so I'm sort of probing.

"The measuring points are all values from a fundamental and its higher harmonics."

Do you mean the measurements were taken in the frequency domain rather than the time domain?

__________________
If you spend all your time looking for people and things to complain about: trust me, you will find plenty to complain about.
Register to Reply
Power-User
Belgium - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Flanders (Belgium)
Posts: 343
Good Answers: 21
#6

Re: Harmonic Content, FFT, DFT, and Fourier Analysis in EXCEL

07/16/2010 6:53 AM

The purpose behind all this is to examine the shape (the form, the way it looks) of a global magnetic field.

The global magnetic field is created by a number of coils. Each coil can increase or decrease the magnetic field at the local point where this coil is situated. So, all the coils together can reform the shape of the global magnetic field.

The coils are mounted in slots I have exactly 36 slots, this gives me the 36 measuring points.

Each measuring point represents a local magnetic field. It looks like a bar graph where the length of each bar a representation is of the local magnetic field.

The total bar graph gives me a representation of the global magnetic field.

With Fourrier, I want to know the harmonic content of this bar graph.

So each measuring point represent a magnetic field at a particular distance.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - Time to take control United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Tampa, Florida, USA
Posts: 2129
Good Answers: 87
#7

Re: Harmonic Content, FFT, DFT, and Fourier Analysis in EXCEL

07/16/2010 7:25 AM

Can you provide us with the 36 data points?

__________________
J B
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Anthem, AZ
Posts: 392
Good Answers: 8
#8

Re: Harmonic Content, FFT, DFT, and Fourier Analysis in EXCEL

07/16/2010 11:01 AM

The FFT is a math function that operates on a time series, but what you have is a "distance series". Also, the samples need to be taken from a single trigger. I am not concluding that your attempt to use the FFT is irrelevant, only that it is outside of the strict definition of an FFT.

If I were setting up an experiement like you described, I would want to sample each sensor with an A/D taking more points (say 512), and all triggered at the same time (perhaps with an RF transmitted trigger?). Then I could take the FFT of all 36 locations, and easily compare the phase of any harmonic from one location to any other. There would be lots of other ways to analyze these data as well (Cepstrum, for instance).

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Canada - Member - Specialized in power electronics

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal, Canada.
Posts: 1372
Good Answers: 80
#9

Re: Harmonic Content, FFT, DFT, and Fourier Analysis in EXCEL

07/16/2010 1:22 PM

Add many repeated sequences in a row to form a larger sample of say 1024. The chopping effect (window) will become less significant as you add points. Then use the FFT utility to find the harmonics spectrum.

__________________
Experienced is earned, common sense is taught, both are rare essentials of life.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User
Belgium - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Flanders (Belgium)
Posts: 343
Good Answers: 21
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Harmonic Content, FFT, DFT, and Fourier Analysis in EXCEL

07/16/2010 3:53 PM

This could be the solution for my problem.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 10 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

cwarner7_11 (1); JBTardis (1); JohnDG (2); marcot (1); Randall (1); rudy.leurs (3); WoodwardDL (1)

Previous in Forum: Trial Software Has Control After Trial-Period   Next in Forum: Software for Design of Fiber Lasers

Advertisement