Energy Sources vs Nature Preservation...

The winds circulate for well known reasons, the small amount of low level wind we intercept is probably insignificant.
If we were to fly absolutely gigantic blimps to high altitude and capture the power of the jet streams we could certaily upset the balance of the natural airflow and hence climate.
Stuff is how it is, because that's how it is.
If rocks were softer they wouldn't be rocks anymore, they'd crumble and become sand.
Our landscape is formed by natural forces, you only have to look closely at the tiniest stream to see these forces at work in miniature...they are just following the natural forces of gravity and mechanics, it will meander, slow down as it runs into a puddle and drop it's silt to form miniature deltas, lakes, cliffs.
Whatever we do is still natural, it's natural for us to use our brains and our hands, it's natural that eventually the planet will die, whatever we do may make a tiny difference to how long it lasts but it is unlikely.
I feel we should simply concentrate on being nice to eachother (and our environment), if we concentrated more on that and less on dogma we'd all be better off.
Del

I agree with del, things are the way they are. I think the dogma of common sense is becoming more and more prevalent. People across the globe are realizing that in the process of eating, building shelters and all of the other things that make our lives better, it makes no sense to destroy everything around us in the process. I don't think humans harvesting wind, solar, fossil fuels etc. are having a profound impact on the earth as a whole. To help keep things in perspective, let's not forget that there have been cataclysmic events in the history of our planet that wiped out most life within a relatively short period of time. If something like this were to occur next week, humans would probably not fare much better than the dinosaurs did, but the earth would recover.

humans would probably not fare much better than the dinosaurs did...
Yeah, but what about us cats?
Del

Cats would rule the world! With you as their fearless leader, of course.

Bear in mind- not all dinosaurs went extinct. The world is full of their descendants. The smart ones just got a whole lot smaller and learned how to fly...

Or still waddle around with their long slappity tails and the big snapping jaws.

Ok, it's only a wubber one, at least it's not a wubber wabbit.
Del

the earth only captures an extremely small amount of the output of the sun. Putting mirrors in space, with computer + gyro controlled positioners would allow redirecting of energy from the mirror to a usable location. Other types of collectors might allow capture, conversion, and storage of that energy. It is problematic due to the fact that the earth-moon system is in constant motion, but it is predictable, and therefore the smart positioning system would work, while the mirror is in a solar orbit of its own. (presumably matching earth orbit)

A lot of the energy output is non-light, meaning that it is slower moving plasma, and may be able to be captured by magnetic bottles, and the plasma could also be diverted to power the positioning rockets (theoretically)

Electrical power stations on the moon could capture and store electrical power, and perhaps the future will find a way to transmit that power via coherent plasma streams and microwaves, etc. to earth. (or it can be used for mineral smelting on the moon)

Perhaps a giant interplanetary wind turbine in near venusian orbit, that turns in the solar plasma wind....

chris

Man's need for more energy is probably the most important factor leading to most of the environmental problems we face today.

Renewable energy sources are definitely better than Fossil fuels in this regard.

Theoretically, human needs can be addressed - not human greed. Who is going to control and who is willing to be controlled ?

Since this is a very elaborate subject, I do not want to get into specific details.

It is an excellent experience trying to visualise the energy flow in the universe. Just imagine how solar energy enters your body through food and enables you to do the various activities. Or, how solar energy gets stored as fossil fuels over a period of millions of years. Or, how solar energy expresses itself as hydro power, wind power, etc., etc.

Rajan

Just adding a little more to my earlier write-up...........

Earth revolves around the sun in an elliptical orbit. The average distance between earth and sun is around 149 million km. At this distance earth receives around one part in 2 billion of the solar radiation.

The entire global energy/power consumption works out to approximately 0.08 % of the solar radiation continuously recieved by earth.

Rajan

Does that include the power consumed by all the plants and algae that require solar energy to produce food for the rest of us who have abandoned photosynthesis as our primary means of extracting resources from the environment?

The power/energy consumed/absorbed in photosynthesis is not included.

An average value for photosynthetic efficiency can be taken to be around 0.5 %. But there are vegetable species with better figures. Sugarcane has a photosynthetic efficiency of around 6 %.

A well-run sugar mill ( with co-generation ) is a net exporter of electricity - not a net user of electricity.

If we proceed through this link of photosynthesis to understand the natural flow of energy on our planet, we are sure to get an amazing picture - which is difficult to explain in words here.

Rajan

Most of earth's surface has a green cover supporting photosynthesis. Of course, there are snow covered areas, deserts, etc.

Vegetable species on land are known to everybody - they initiate the food chain on the land.

Oceans are covered by phytoplanktons which are microscopic vegetable species - which initiates the food chain for the marine life. Small fishes eat them, big fish eats small fish, etc.

Fossil fuels ( coal, oil and gas ) which provide around 90 % of commercial energy around the world today also have their origin from the remains of the plant and animal matter ( got converted over millions of years ).

The solar radiation has a uniform intensity, as it reaches the earth. It is around 1 KW/m2 on an area perpendicular to the rays. Any difference felt is on account of the curvature of the earth's surface. As you proceed towards polar areas, shaddows get longer.

If we assume an average photosynthetic efficiency of 0.5 % and our total requirement of energy ( other than food ) to be around 0.08 % of the solar radiation reaching earth, the picture is very promising. Food itself consumes only a very small part of the total solar radiation falling on earth's surface.

Having said this, how efficient are we in using/recycling this energy ? Wastages are unbelievably large. Very soon man will have to take this route ( moving away from fossil fuels ) - if he has to survive.

Nuclear fission may not be the ideal answer. Possibility of nuclear fusion is not known. Even solar farms may not be the solution.

Rajan

Today's world is not the same as say 200yrs before.The climate,weather pattern etc has changed.We don't eat the same food our ancestors ate or wear the same dress our ancestors wore.Harnessing wind/solar energy may not do much harm as we tap only a very little portion of it.But mining minerals,oil etc and cutting trees without replanting,using chemicals as fertiliser,pesticide,insecticide etc may have an impact on the earth by creating earth slips,volcano etc by disturbing the equilibrium of forces deep under even creating other problems like pollution.But we are doing these for our survival due to the increase in population which could be only controlled by UN by imposing sanctions on those countries which donot control its population growth,making nuclear weapons,maintaining a large army(idling man power and resources) interfering in affairs of other countries,violating human rights etc.

Not all of the "preferred" alternatives are as friendly to the environment as the advocates would have you believe. For example, hydro electric plants require on the order of 5 hectares of denuded forest for each megawatt produced. Solar energy requires about 20 hectares of denuded land for each megawatt. Wind requires 50 hectares of denuded land for each megawatt. And biofuels require 200 hectares for each megawatt...

Without sacrifices we cannot achieve anything.For instance to buy anything from a shop one should pay for it and if we can earn more we can buy more.We should compensate for the destructions or use alternatives. If we cannot stop global warming homes should be built underground to reduce cooling load as well as the consequent damage done by manufacturing and using/maintaining the cooling equipment.

Actually, here in the tropics, people once understood how to build comfortable homes and other buildings that did not require air conditioning, above ground (below ground is not a good solution in this part of the world, due to the fact that the water table is very close to the surface). Over the past 50 years or so, people seem to have forgotten how to do this- and newer construction is pretty much uninhabitable without air conditioning. For a typical modern structure in this part of the world, as much as 60% of the energy consumption can be from air conditioning. When one looks at buildings of mre than 50 or 60 years ago, one gets an idea of traditional techniques for reducing the need for air conditioning that actually worked...

You are absolutely correct. We are forgetting many good old things.

We recently changed the colour from "light ivory" to "off white/natural white" when we repainted our house - both inside and outside. Also, we painted our terrace white. We are finding a reduction of 10 % in our electricity consumption. We do not use any air conditioner. Houses with air conditioners may find even a bigger percentage change in electricity consumption.

Rajan

Good morning EddyM,

Is your name really Al Gore! In the future, engineers may have to take an oath to try not to spoil the environment for mankind, but right now we still work for a living. We pay attention to EPA regulations here in the USA. If our work causes a problem in the local environment, it will be noticed at the next performance evaluation or sooner if fines are levied by the EPA. I did not drink your Kool Aid. Carbon Dioxide is a friend to all plant life, instead of taxing it why not plant a few more trees?

Sincerely,

Luther M

Planting trees does not enrich the power brokers of the world. Their objective is not to solve the problem but to skim more money from your pockets.

As far as green energies are concerned, once we draw enough of it, the effect on the planet / climate will not be negligible anymore and there will be a new generation of mis-informed greenees who will call for the destruction of the wind mills their parents have fought to install.

I live my life protecting the nature that surrounds my little area of suburb but I am sadden by the lack of common sense used by many of the "good doers" of the world.

There are many discussions on this sites where valuable opinions and solutions have been presented by the CR4 community. Read those if you want to learn about "real" workable solutions.

<This made me ponder about some fundamental question; "could there be another reason why nature or God (whatever you believe in) has provided us with these things, other than just for us to use them?".>

Thank god you have questions....

I read somewhere...There are no solids. There are no things. There are only interfering and noninterfering patterns operative in pure principle, and principles are eternal. Principles never contradict principles. . . . The synergetic integral of the totality of principles is God, whose sum-total behavior in pure principle is beyond our comprehension and is utterly mysterious to us, because as humans — in pure principle — we do not and never will know all the principles. (BF)

Hope this helps you ask more questions.

3. Mineral (e.g. Coal) Energy - Other the CO2 emmissions that come off coal when we burn it, which is creating some problems to us, could there be another reason why there's coal (and all the other minerals) in the ground?

That's a good point you make. Why are all these minerals around us except to be used. Over the years, we have discovered uses for these resources, so why are they there except for man's use. If not used, they would simply convert to dust in eons to come. Are we destroying the world? In a way yes, but only because we haven't discovered new ways to harness what is around us. The Co₂ problem will eventually go away once we find a new energy source that doesn't release as much Co₂. We may be using the term "pollution" too liberally. We tend to label everything that affects us as pollution. If we sneeze, is it because of the pollen in the air or is it the hydrocarbons from emissions? Whether it is the former or latter, we still regard it a pollution.

Certainly we shouldn't exhaust all of one type of resource. We should be looking of ways to utilize other resources as well, but not to the extent that it becomes "endangered". I think our ancestors thousands of years ago realized it. It's only in the recent 200+ years that we have gone full speed ahead in a direction that caused certain resources to become more scarce. We are now at the point that we are starting to realize other ways to use resources without depleting them. One must remember that oil reserves are being depleted, but new oil is being created deep down in the earth as we speak. It is a process that is renewable, but takes a long time to work. Trees are renewable, but again take years to happen. What we have to do is to slow down on the use of current resources and develop ways of using new resources. The planet is renewable. That's a happy thought

perhaps cleaning water?

Hi Ron,

Yes, the actual energy consumption is creating problems in the air to living animals, plants, and humans, on the soil to plants, animals and to us, pesticides destroy more than preserve or help. We have to change our life-style of using everything and everything in excess when we can do, and not let others to live a descent life. This is the problem between rich and poor that total the humanity. Everyone will be the loser or we act for the best together in harmony!

We need water, air, and food to survive. However, we attack all these three important values we have in the nature. I was in China in the late 90s and know what's air-pollution. I saw the rivers, and today we have around us with blue algea, with dead fishes and milky or heavily coloured liquid we once called water. What's happening with the water we have to drink to survive. Within one or two decades we will fight for drinking water. For example, Shri Lanka will be floaded and the population will be doubled. Invasion will start! The Mexicans are in the same situation, and we are close to them.

Today, we try to solve the problem of democratic government and the Taliban in Afganistan. What will be the problem in ten years in this country when they have no water to drink? Pakistan will be in the same situation. They are nuclear power! North Korea does already, provoke the world because they have no food and water enough!

We have to see the future in a clear way and be disciplined to achieve what we have to do to give a normal life to everyone.

Energy is one problem but water - absolutely necessary to survive - is more important for everyone. One week without gazoline is accepted but not drinking for a week is impossible to survive! However, we have to work hard on both problems, Gil.

The basic problem is there is no international organisation to monitor activities by various countries.The UN is a puppet organisation.Any country/government where people practices inhuman,uncivilised acts including stoning to death ,cutting limbs,forced circumcision,torturing,ethnic cleansing,genocide,enforcing draconian laws,banning news,not allowing icrc or ai,spending excessive money on army,making nuclear weapons and space exploration while about 30% of its people are under the poverty line,unequal distribution of wealth,family rule,excessive pollution etc should not be admitted to UN and all aids cut.A ranking system of nations similar to ATP tennis ranking should be formed and points allocated to above mentioned items,per capita income,% renewable energy used etc Some countries to be declared abnormal and even as terrorist states.

I like this idea.. Quality Assurance for Nations... unfortunately, all seats would be empty.

"God gave us fuel, greed gives us gas"

Burning of matter for energy is the coolest hot blunder[ inevitable as per present technology levels] humanity is doing.

Electricity and its vast utility scope is the greatest, smartest accomplishments of humanity.

It is all man made developments. nature remains naked as ever.