Building vs. Purchasing Desktop Computer

Thanks for the information! In terms of OS, my original intention was to use "Windoze" but I might jump on the Ubuntu band wagon that seems to be forming. I'm just worried it'll be difficult to reconfig the software so that it can be used properly.

GA for the advice though :D

Were you to go the linux route

you would be better off finding linux software to do what you need to do, running windows stuff through Wine is problematic by most accounts.

You will find you can do everything you want to do & more with linux, so your familiarity with your software list [& the ability to return] will influence your decision

There is easy access to 30000+ programs with linux, there are certainly 1000's more through places like source forge

There is a dizzing array of different distributions

for the software you might consider something like centos or one of the other scientific oriented distros

I've been using Mint9 which is a more polished version of the latest Ubuntu 10.04. very user friendly. I've got it installed on 3 different machines.

I would suggest burning one or more different version on a live CD, which will let you test drive one or more, without having to commit

If you want to play games you can buy at the store you probably want to build a windoze box

Enough people have openly endorsed Ubuntu as being both user friendly and powerful. I'll probably follow BruceFlorida's idea below and dual boot if only to allow for games on the Windoze and the more serious applications on the Ubuntu partition. Thanks for the link to the various distributions though, I'll definitely try a few of them out!

You should also consider, having a dedicated hard drive for each operating system, which makes many of the organizational issues less confusing.

I use an old beater pentiumIII pc as my home for backup files & to connect the printer to. Some printers can be problematic for use with linux. My experience with cheap HP printers has been plug & play, poke around HERE which is one of the primary places for help.

one of the things to keep in mind is software installed with the software manager, usually requires no troubleshooting, all the other libraries & dependencies installed at the same time. apps like google earth work out of the box.

This comment (two drives) is a good one as it avoids the problem of Windoze trying to kill the other OS or the Doze Bootmanager and the Linux one fighting with each other. Also avoids partitioning tools from conficting with each other.

With two physical drives (rather than one-drive multiple partitions) you can let the system BIOS serve as the bootmanager (just instruct it to make WD boot first, not Seagate, etc.). Windoze will be powerless to destroy the alternative OS (what he doesn't know won't hurt you).

Actually the ubuntu boot manager [grub] shows me boot HDD's at start up, I can set up which ever to be the default. When I'm using Ubuntu I can see all the files on the XP HDD

like you say the 2 HDD solution keeps Winduze from fussing around with my other install(s), It also gives me a place to keep stuff, when I want to do a clean linux install

I've only got a 40g for XP, which I haven't used [for the last year] except to restore an Ipod mini I dropped off a ladder

An advantage of of Mint is no messing around to get flash & some of the other things to work

"Typically when you build your own computer, you end up with a more powerful machine than you'd get buying it from a retailer for the same amount of money."

I've found lately that this seems to be not the case. Of course YMMV. It obviously depends on a variety of factors such as the vendor, which components you can be flexible about, etc. But the last few times I priced out building my own system completely from scratch it turned out to be a little cheaper to buy a pre-built system from a PC manufacturer and then tweak it slightly (say by adding my preferred video card myself).

Then again, it's always "fun" to build it all yourself. You get to use a lot of naughty words.

I'm certainly prepared to get in a shouting match with inanimate objects (and lose I'd imagine) especially to the tempermental RAM. One of my roomates from college went through 7 of the same RAM til they finally got one that had -less- errors :P

GA!!

We build our own CAD/engineering computers, much to the chagrin of our IT department who don't have a clue about engineering requirements.

Depending on your needs/wishes, you can build nice machines for between US$1000 and $1500. We are currently building with Intel I7 chips on ASUS or EVGA motherboards and have been selecting nvidia GTX-260 graphics cards. We also buy decent medium tower cases with lots of built in case fans. This stuff runs HOT!!

FWIW, we buy mostly from newegg.com. I'm not endorsing them for any particular reason except its pretty much one stop shopping and you can often find companion discount deals on boards and chips. Also, the customer reviews on newegg are convenient.

Hooker

Good advice by all. We have been "building" ours here at the office for 8 years rather than buying "manufactured" units. We have had great success!

Research is the key to success though.

Good luck with your design/build.

Ubuntu Linux is great for everyone except people that want/need Windows. Remember that when building your own system it is VERY COMMON to set it up as a dual boot. Thus, purchasing a legal copy of Windows is the only real "Windows vs. Linux" issue. Other than that, dual boot and don't bother with making that choice.

Try to find boards that say something like "No Chinese Capacitors" or "Uses Solid Japanese Capacitors". Not only have I lost several systems due to bad capacitors but I have had systems go down and take the hard drive data with them. At least some of the big name motherboards will now let you know on the box that they have good quality capacitors. The Chinese capacitors stories are not Urban Myth. The pennies saved during manufacture have cost billions of dollars in damages.

Think about your monitor(s). Will you want dual monitors (sound's unnecessary until you get addicted to it)? Also, sooner or later you will probably want to use HDMI to hook it up to a modern TV. Think about it and probably get an HDMI output even if you don't plan to use it.

Bruce

I've already got a 22" 720p lcd monitor with VGA and HDMI cable entries. I've actually noticed a few distributors selling/offering 3D monitors for a much steeper price. This is the first I've even heard of this, do you have any information pertaining to them?

Also, I previously had two monitors set up and it definitely spoils you :D

Great information! I was looking into Radeon as the brand for video card, and this helps verify it for me. I won't be overclocking too much (if at all, I'm a whimp when it comes right down to it), but I can definitely get behind the 1kW power source and heavy cooling systems. I was going to recycle the one from my old desktop (which is anceint, I've been using my laptop) but found it was only 300 Watts whiiiich probably won't be enough.

I just found out about the SSD's from newegg and will definitely keep a prowling eye on it, particularly when I'll be looking to get two hard drives to eliminate the need to partition.

In terms of coolants, I've seen a number of heat sinks used in models (some being very clever with the aluminum casing) and am having a difficult time singling one out. Any suggestions?

The Gigabyte motherboard listed, and I'm sure later versions, have an overclocking feature built into the BIOS. I've spent countless hours playing around with FSB, multiplier, CPU voltage and memory settings to extract every last drop of performance from my homebrew systems but Gigabyte gathered all the stable settings and going from 3 to 4 GHz literally took one mouse click.

No need to be afraid of screwing things up, if your cpu/ram can't handle the overclock the system reboots to defaults.

Very nice build, but I'll bet you a buffalo nickle you could do it a lot cheaper buying used components off of eBay, without sacrificing quality.

I'd sacrifice the warranty though.

Worth it to me, ymmv.

I actually gave you a GA for your other post #19, that was such an informative dissertation that I think it deserves more appreciation.

One more issue with HDMI. Historically TVs have used "overscan". They assume that what is on the edge of the picture is not important so they "zoom in" a bit and throw away the edges. This makes you think you are in closer and since that is about the same as having a bigger TV you tell the salesman "yes" and buy the TV.

With some HDMI TVs they do overscan. Period. End of sentence. If you hook up a computer you don't get the menu bars at the top of the screen, the scroll bars on the sides of the screen and the tool bars (or whatever they are called) at the bottom of the screen. Almost impossible to use.

Some (hopefully most now) TVs have a "normal" and a "pixel for pixel" mode. This allows you to get the full computer image on the TV screen. Google "HDMI" and "overscan" if you need to know more about this.

Bruce

Hi BruceFlorida,

I didn't know about this, so I must have gotten lucky.

I am now using a Dynex 46" HDTV as my monitor - 1920 x 1080 @ 2.5 ft. viewing distance. I love it! I can have 4 apps tiled and see all of them fine. It works fine with VGA or HDMI in Windows 7. The HDMI does not work well with XP though. I have to reset the resolution manually every time I turn on my computer, so I only use it with my Win7 pc anymore.

This next statement is not just for you, but all reading this thread:

I have had so many problems with almost every version of Windows, with the device conflicts in 95 and 98, to the slowness of XP when you got a few dozen apps installed. I didn't go for Vista - too many horror stories.

Then the day came when I wanted to build a 64-bit system. I researched MBs, processors and peripherals and, with urging from my son, I put it together and installed Win7.

Pro's:

1. It's fast - beats XP up and down the block, even though I've installed at least a couple of dozen programs.
2. I have not had a single problem with my 32-bit programs, including a 3D CAD program, LabView 6, graphics programs, and Office 2000 (Excel is up in < 3 seconds).
3. Browsing is fast - when I was using XP & IE, I thought it was my connection speed that was slow. Not so!
4. Nice interface - much more customizable than XP (as it should be).
5. Since the install (8 months ago), I have not had one lockup and have not been kicked out of a program (This program has stopped responding. End Now? ^{_{No, I'll just sit here twiddling my thumbs, HOPING that it will come back somehow!}).}
6. Free MS Security Essentials is quite good and was, I think, designed to be used with Win7. Not a virus, adware, malware or scareware yet.

^{I know that a lot of the increase in speed is because I now have a 64-bit system, but I'm just sayin'}

Con's:

1. I don't like the new look and feel of the games included (Minesweeper squares are highlighted when the mouse rolls over them).
2. I find it confusing when using Windows Explorer because of the new "Libraries" system.

Now, I am not trying to sound all pro-MS here, but I am impressed (at last, since first using Excel) with a MS product. Could they have finally gotten their s**t together by actually listening to all the negative crap and fixing it?

Anyway, I'm the happiest I have ever been with my (new) computer.

Mike

Any decent video card will come with a suite that allows you to configure the display anyway you want it ... Overscan is not a problem at all. nVidia display suite is the easiest that I have used.

I recommend getting the same manufacturer for your MB and Video (avoids conflict issues). I personally Like ASUS and GIGABYTE because they have less conflict issues and the instructions are well written/translated in English.

Crucial RAM (DO NOT SKIMP ON QUALITY RAM) in pairs. So if your board can use 6GB get 2x3GBs ... vendors sell them in pairs as "dual channel" kits. You get better performance. I'm sure everyone has their fav's & Crucial is hands down my fav.

If you don't mind spending money for performance ... nest your OS on an SSD ... just wicked fast compared to anything else ... I'm sorry ... 'NOTHING compares' is a better description.

This is some intense information, and has done a very good job in educating me in the finer parts of each component! I'm planning on buying each part pending the sales/rebates come and go online, but this will help plan out what parts in particular I'll want to look for! A big GA from me :D

Hi DrMoose,

Great post! Your paragraph on cooling is especially vital. With just a bit of insight into how important this is, a heck of a lot of problems can be avoided. Power supply too. About 8 months ago, my XP computer kind of crashed. It would boot, but the mouse or keyboard wouldnt work.

So, I thought I would have to make a new system and started doing the research. During this time I was still bothered about what could be wrong with the XP system. At some point, I decided to test the power supply and found the 5V section was not working, though the 12V one was. I took apart the PS and the construction was terrible! (I had bought the cheapest I could find).

In conclusion, I will always view the PS to be as important as the MB and CPU when building a new system!

Mike

Thank you Mikey. Though I dare say I could have written pages upon each individual topic, and cooling and power supply are two places where people are all too likely to try to save money. Bad Idea.

I spent years building computers from other peoples cast-off junk. Frankensteins, if you will. It forced me to research carefully every component that came to my hand, and to pick the brains of anyone who knew more than I did. I learned one or two things along the way.

Personally, I've gotten away from desktop machines over the last few years and gone exclusively to laptops. Far lower power requirements and much smaller footprint on the desktop. Plus it's nice to be able to take them with with you. But, I do try to stay current.

One thing that is a true pity. Recent CPUs utilize different sockets for desk- and laptop applications. I used to like to use laptop CPUs in my desktop machines. Less power consumption and they ran a great deal cooler than comparable desktop CPUs.

Problem with laptops is they have a high vapor pressure

Also are mostly irreparable (un-repairable?) Ya can't fix em.

Not at all true my friend. I have repaired and upgraded numerous laptops. I have for example an 8 year old T40 sitting right next to me which I still use from time to time and which I have upgraded to T42 specifications. The main problem with laptops is that most people buy cheap, poorly made consumer-grade machines and don't bother to keep the dust blown out of them etc., and then wonder why they seldom live more than two years.

I have three laptop computers. The afore mentioned 8 year old T41 and a 2 year old T61, both top quality business-class machines, and a 4 year old Dell Inspiron e1505 which is very much a consumer-grade computer. All have been meticulously maintained and all three function flawlessly.

No sir, the real problem is that all too often when something serious goes wrong with a laptop, such as the motherboard or the display panel, it's just not worth fixing them.

Building a computer can be enjoyable; however, you must make sure that you get modules that have been "burned-in." A faulty daughter board can wipe out the mother board and associated daughter boards. Much more common is the modules that don't work. Some computer stores won't let you return a module that you've tried to install, yourself.

Take your time; but remember, technology with outpace your building efforts. Back when computers were "new," I built a 486 computer with Seagate hard-drive, 16 Megs of RAM, tope of the line sound card, tope of the line monochrome monitor, etc.

By the time I was done, color monitors were the rage, the Pentium had been introduced, the hard drive capacity had been increased by magnitudes .... In short, I had a unsupported low-end computer; but, it was fun and I learned a lot.

Unless you have a specific need, I would go with a "compromise" box with a 500 Meg to 1T hard drive (partitioned for different OS), etc.

It will be a learning experience.

Good Luck in the contest

I opted for the middle ground with the PC I bought last year, I chose the main components but let our local computer shop build it so that I received a working machine ready for the OS install. That way it is all tested & guaranteed, because they get better deals on parts it still only cost about the same as me buying the parts myself.

I spent probably 45 minutes replying to posts here. Do I get any acknowlegement? No. Yet again I feel I am wasting my time here. Goodbye.