Adsorbed Synthesis Gas

Years ago I worked with adsorption-type CO₂ scrubbers for controlled atmosphere fruit warehouses. Activated carbon was one adsorbent choice, as was some type of molecular sieve (I've forgotten which). Maybe something like this would fit your app also.

I tried a search on "biomass gas adsorption" and got lots of interesting stuff to read someday.

interesting topic, since i am interested in bio-power and have built a kick butt portable wood chip gassification burner for camp, jobsite or emergency heating. Highly adaptable to home use as well. Looks kinda like an f-16 afterburner going, no smoke, no smell, just clean power, exit temps over 1200f at times. totally self aspirated, too, no blower. just light it and walk away.

Are you using the charcoal idea to store woodgas, or to use it for adsorption cooling?

thanks for your input I want to pump 15,000M3 OF woodgas into roll on tanks so the gas can be mixed at 75% gas 25% diesel fuel to save my client $3M a year on his passenger/car ferry's bill - this is being done small scale- why won't it scale up? _ I reckon it will but would save me a lot of time and money if someone can sell me a tank or a design for same

Thanks again would like to see a foto of your rocket

sir,

There is some apparatus available for separating CO2 from the mixture and then compressing it for making dry ice or industrial use. Experts may comment.

kiran

I know I'd love to see that biofuel afterburner going!

For your issues PBE I am still confused as to what you are actually trying to achieve with the activated carbon tanks.

OK I understand that you are generating syn gas from partial pyrolysis and shift reaction of wood chip. This produces a low grade fuel. (There is substantial N2 and CO2 in the fuel so its calorific value is low) but a cheap renewable usable fuel none the less. And the overall project is designed to subsitiute cheap syn gas for diesel on a commercial ferry.

This fuel often needs to be cleaned (or tars, CO2, water etc). Has that been done or is that the point of the activated carbon. I did see another similar post from you and I am still struggling with some issues.

I understand that low pressure vessels are cheaper to make and safer to handle but they are naturally much bigger and I am concerned about the space you would need for low pressure storage. I am assuming you are not generating the syn gas on the ferry! Also you will need a compressor to compress the syn gas. But if this is being done on shore the cost should not be prohibitive. As far as pressure vessels go consider propane and butane tanks.

Thanks

Hi Thanks for your input- sorry my net server system was down yesterday as I live on a smalll island in Fiji - SW Pacific and our communications aren't all that flash- I have been involved with combustion and pyrolsis and activation systems for twenty years I helped build the first activation system in the South Pacific Islands and operated it here (fiji) using coconutshell to make granular carbon(AC) for CIP and CIL goldmining purposes. the finer carbon was good for foodprocessing and water filtration. In those days diesel was cheap and no one wanted Independent power providers as we were competition- times have changed in the middle of the big pond and we are now colleagues- grid partners. I use my syngas from the process for my own combustion purposes, Start with LPG until I get enough gas flow to switch over. Now I am working on a new system to balance and get some AC output and some excess syngas to run spark fired gas generators for power to the grid. Right in the middle of things an old work mate copied me some info about AC being used as adsorbent to store gas in thinner walled- low pressure tanks- there are several leads I have followed to those who are making small tanks for motorbike and automotive purposes- well I thought- I have the right microporous - hard coconut shell carbon, have the syngas which when processed thru my new (my design-being built in China) fluidbed recirculating gasification system- my gas will be scrubbed and cooled to acceptable levels for my power or other requirements. So then My mate has a passenger/car ferry that burns 500L of diesel per hr at the cost of about $USD1/L- He operates 5,000 hrs/yr and spends almost $USD3M per year with that ship and two others that we will get to- next year. He has offered me a handsome reward if I can reduce his fuel bill by any amount- I have some experience running dual fuel- gas (LPG,CNG,NG) mixed with varying amts of diesel, HFO depending on your aspiration system. I have a quote from a middle east oil field supplier of dual fuel systems - who reckons they can get about 70% mix of my syngas into the 1,000HP Wartsila's in question. So we have a supply of gas (about 6MJ/M3) (I think I can isolate and remove the nitrogen & the CO2 in a similar way and that will be redirected to the activation chamber to be used in the activation cycle) that should leave us a much cleaner gas -but not sure if it will increase the heat value- anyway the usual syngas will work - just need more of it. My dual guys can make my engines run-I just need to get them the gas to the engine room - air intake. I am building the carbon/gas plant anyway so thought I would experiment with the adsorption to take the challenge, more than the money- can;t get any R&D money as they spend it all on diesel I.m told- which makes my job slower but just as interesting. I have dug up a patented drawing of someones efforts to build "MY" tank and after a throrough study- I think I can build something similar- however my client would rather buy something off the shelf as first choice- thus my search- When and If I get some extramoney I will try on my own- I realise that it is easier to get the gas in rather than out -but my secret instructions show me how to handle that by cooling in and heating out- I reckon I might have to increase the suck on the blowers but no problems there says my middle east oil man - just give me the gas -boy. I think my biggest problem is going to be to get the marine safety board to buy into the idea- they won't allow liguid or gas tanker transport because of the passengers for hire so I suppose I can find a way to save on the fuel but beauacracy or the oil fuel companinies will find a way to throttle me The ASG system is going to go ahead in the world anyway despite any opposition- China is steadily converting from coal to biomass and I am trying to get some R&D interests going there - everybody tells me to watch out they will steal my idea but I reckon its been around alot longer than I will be. That should give you a better picture of what I am doing and trying to do- in the meantime I go diving and fishing when it suits me- I have a sail boat and learned 50 yrs ago how to handle my fuel crisis Thanks for your positive interest- there hasn;t been a lot David Campbell, Suva - Fiji Pacific BioEnergy

Hi David

Well explained situation. Between a rock and a hard place. Catch 22, caught 44. I can't help you much in detail but here is some information which you could have a look at. Maybe you can get something out of it. This is NOT AN ENDORSEMENT of the company.

http://www.magnegas.com/technology.html

There was a discussion here

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/53835#newcomments

Hope this helps a bit, Ky.

Thanks Ky

I am following this lead in hopes they might know of a source to buy or have a tank built for a dollar three eighty. Their plasma technique sounds interesting.

will keep ya posted

The secrets of the universe are reveled only to those who can keep secrets

Secrets? Which, what secrets? Or are you talking about

se·crete

¹    /sɪˈkrit/ Show Spelled[si-kreet] Show IPA –verb (used with object), -cret·ed, -cret·ing.

to discharge, generate, or release by the process of secretion.

Unless you think that I'm full of it I will reveal myself, Ky.

I don't know it was whispered into my ear during an acid trip in Haight-Asbury circa (or circus) 68 but I forgot- guess it wasn't that important

As I see it you wish store the gas adsorbed on the carbon, with no need for high pressure storage. The first problem is the amount of gas you can absorb on the activated charcoal is small. It is not practical to store 15,000 M3 as it might take a tank of 5000 M3. In the second place, it requires energy to remove this adsorbed gas to use it, this robs you of part of the efficiency.

I could suggest metal hydrate formation, but this would use only a part of the gas(which might be OK, make a hydrate to use the methane or other simple alkanic gas component, and use the rest on land.

A metal hydrate forms between various gasses and water under pressure and cold. Google it.

Then an experiment would be to put 0.1 liter of water in a pressure tank with a lid and put in compressed gas and wait a few days. Then open and see if you have hydrate crystals. Make sure it all runs at safe pressures. With pure water and gas, any crystals formed will be some hydrates.

I can understand the dollar drain to buy fuel oil.

Did you know, I have heard that that carbon dust of a very fine grade can be added to diesel and will combust with it.

Google that, as each pound of carbon you burn this way is one less pound of oil needed. Research this with care to make sure you do not wreck an engine. There may be people selling add on kits for this.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3861885.html

Hi CQ thanks for your input- first of all I know for fact that they are getting over 100 times more gas into carbon adsorbtion tanks under 50 bar. I reckon that will help with my need for more volume because of less calorific value of the syngas. There are several others who have solved the filling and delivery bits- it seems my only big problem is finding a storebought tank- I am far too busy and remotely located to begin experimenting with hydrates, although I am looking into it with great interest.

As for the carbonaceous fuel mixture also sounds workable- I would assume that one would want to use char or unactivated carbon as it would still contain the tars and volatiles that would give it some umph- It would probably work well with bunker C or light crude used by the very large carrier ships but their costs are probably low enough that they wouldn't pay for the chance to possibly create new problems rather than offer cheaper solutions

Still seriuosly seeking a receptacle for my requirments

I understand typical bullet type CNG tanktainers (can't seem to google much on this) can carry up to 14,000M3 - so what if I cut one in half- compartmentize, compact my (the right stuff) carbon in to allow higher density input volume and to build in a ventilation system for air circulation to cool on filling and heat at discharge then I flange and bolt the tank back together and voila-will I get 100 time more gass in it? - if so -I could circumnaigate the world with it on a not so very large yacht

I have detailed drawings and am convinced I can do it but what are the costs and comparison to buy from someone who is already doing it and has worked out the bugs-for me

are you are out there?- please Identify yourself and send your drawings, warranty and banking instructions or I will send a ship load of cash because the return trip will be 70% cheaper and we get the change on our first years' usage

thanks

there is a large energy cost to 50 bar compressions. I am not sure if it would be worth it.

Another thought is to make a steam powered ship, save some steps and burn the raw materials into steam and run an engine.

thanks but 50 bar only requires low single stage compression and not a lot of enery/M3, I make my own electricity so that doesn't worry me either- My problem is how to fix my mates ship -not design him a new one- we are losing the plot here

I have just about everything figured out except the tank- is anybody making one for sale and how much does it cost- I have given my client another 2 wks which will total 2 mths of serious surfing and the tide's going out I will have to conclude to my nautical pal that if he wants one soon he better HIRE me to build one. I could have already saved him much more in fuel than he would have spent contracting me to get on it the "right" way (from my perspective anyway) - pay money watch fat lady sing

I suppose you've seen This?

The large IBC's for liquids or gases are much harder to come by, than the much more common dry goods containers.

Railcars are probably out of the question too?

have you tried contacting hanjin, maresek [or other large shipping company I can't spell]

Reading threads like this reminds me why I sometimes find my job frustrating. Sadly I cant offer any real help but I do hope you find a way to use the AC for absorbing the syngas and driving your friends ferry.

As you have been warned the chinese are liable to copy your idea. I have no personal knowledge if this is true but its a common concern. Hoever if youget what you want out of them it would be frustrating to see the idea mass produced in china and not to get a share of the action but at least you get to wear you want to be.

As to the issue of gas on ships - born free red taped to death. Perhaps try this as an idea. The gas is absorbed into the AC. So if you opened the tank there is little to no pressure, the atmosphere would be flammable but in essence it would be like a solid fuel. I think elf n safety (sorry Englishism there) are lovely friends in the Safety departments are concerned about gas tanks because of

a) Pressure - risk of cylinder splitting causing projectile risk, flame thrower action etc

b) fuel density

c) explosion risk

I guess with the pressure in heat out issue these do become a liability if there was a ferry on the fire. External heat would release more gas than you wanted so you have an overpressure / explosion / fire risk

It will be difficult to address but if you can get them to believe its just like a truck full of coke you might be on to something

Thanks for the insight. I think I can get around the rudiments of getting the tank onboard and its proper place in the vessel and safely get the gas to the engine to do its designated job as predicted- my only drawback now is that my client would rather spend more money (if necessary) to buy a "money back" tank to assure his fellow sharholders that they are not fishing instead of hauling trucks and bums on seats.

Thanks all - we are chipping away and every little bit builds a mountain

DC