Previous in Forum: Radar Level Instrument Showing Hardware Fault on SCADA?   Next in Forum: Refresher Courses for Electricians
Close
Close
Close
11 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Participant

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2

Calibrated Flow Meters

09/09/2010 5:12 PM

Long time reader, first time poster....We just recently installed a paddle wheel type flow meter for oil. It has a 0-10 VDC output that is wired to a PLC. We determined the flow rate for our plc by running the oil into a beaker at different flow rates. Our customer now wants certification papers for the flow meter. My question is can we hire an outside company to come in and certify our flow meter or do we need to purchase a pre-calibrated flow meter? Thank you for your time.

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Guru
United States - Member - Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Electrical Construction

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mid Western USA - The Corn Belt
Posts: 1439
Good Answers: 58
#1

Re: Calibrated Flow Meters

09/09/2010 5:22 PM

My experience working at a refinery back in the day was we had to send our 8" flow meter out to be certified.

Our flow meter was fitted to the discharge side of an oil water separator. The EPA required us to get it re-certified once a year.

I went to the certification lab once and they had a pretty elaborate set up for testing and certifying. Piping and tanks so they could measure at different flow rates.

I guess this could be done in the field but I thought there was some issue about being a certified testing laboratory to actually certify a flow meter.

To answer your question, yes, you can hire an outside company but I believe you would have to send your flow meter to them for certification.

__________________
The first 5 days after a weekend are always the hardest................................
Register to Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 669
Good Answers: 176
#2

Re: Calibrated Flow Meters

09/09/2010 5:54 PM

It depends on what 'certify' means to your customer. Does it mean a 3rd party licks a sticker, sticks it to the meter and provides a sheet of paper on letterhead that says, in effect, "I looked at this meter"?

Or does it mean that the meter is actually tested on a flow stand with traceable certifications?

It is my impression that most, if not all commercial flow stands test with water. A K factor is calculated for the medium (oil) that will be used. Calculating a K factor requires a viscosity at the working temperature.

Getting a viscosity at a working temperature can be a challenge in itself.

To be honest, for industrial use, if I were your customer, I'd be more than pleased with a bucket and stop watch flow calibration. But many media don't lend themselves to such. Nor do all customers have the same expectation.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Safety - ESD - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - Amateur Astronomer Technical Fields - Technical Writing - Writer India - Member - Regular CR4 participant Engineering Fields - Optical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 18 29 N 73 57E
Posts: 1390
Good Answers: 31
#6
In reply to #2

Re: Calibrated Flow Meters

09/11/2010 12:23 AM

Sorry Iris, I disagree.

Firstly let us not talk about the flow stands which are not accredited according to ISO 17025.

Now about the stand (or flow calibration rigs) which have got accreditation. While getting accreditation all the factors of using different media, affects of temperature, pressure, density, buoyancy, viscosity are considered.

Besides, normally rigs are either for mass flow measurement principle, by gravimetric principles or volume flow measurement by reference volume comparison. Both methods have traceability chain.

Viscosity has no real role in flow calibration. With other factors like pressure, temperature the density changes. The density has clear effect of calibration. If we are using gravimetric method for volume flow rate calibration or volumetric method for mass flow calibration, the density is very important. But, if we are using gravimetric method for mass flow rate calibration, density doesn't come in picture. Similarly, if we are using volumetric method for volume flow rate calibration, density has no role to play.

Besides, if it is very important, there are flow stand available where actual media (oil) is used for calibration, instead of water.

Good you are satisfied with measurement in bucket, but thats not called the calibration and not at all accurate to even 5%. Here volume measurement is also not accurate and stop watch.... manual response time itself is 0.3 second. It is just mental satisfaction.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Antonio, TX USA
Posts: 844
Good Answers: 29
#3

Re: Calibrated Flow Meters

09/10/2010 8:35 AM

And "custody transfer" is synonymous with "cash register" so make sure everyone's on the same page when that sticker gets licked. There are lots of flow solutions out there. Here's one I've been looking into lately. (usual disclaimer).

__________________
"Do not worry about your difficulties in Mathematics. I can assure you mine are still greater". - Albert Einstein
Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2
#4

Re: Calibrated Flow Meters

09/10/2010 1:27 PM

Thank you for all of the answers. I will be contacting our customer for more details.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - ESD - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - Amateur Astronomer Technical Fields - Technical Writing - Writer India - Member - Regular CR4 participant Engineering Fields - Optical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 18 29 N 73 57E
Posts: 1390
Good Answers: 31
#5

Re: Calibrated Flow Meters

09/11/2010 12:05 AM

It depends upon many factors.

What accuracy you need?

Which country you are in? Do your customers need third party certification.

I am daily in calibration business. Please take my word, it is not so easy as collecting it in a beaker. For accuracy, it is much more invalved.

For site calibration, using precalibrated meter as reference is OK. But for real good accurate calibration, you need to take your meter to acrredited calibration laboratory.

Please let me know the country you are from, I can suggest the laboratory. Also inform the flow rage of your meter.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5800
Good Answers: 114
#7

Re: Calibrated Flow Meters

09/11/2010 2:45 AM

Once again we don't quite have enough information to provide accurate answers,

"oil" is vague, the size of the pipe would be nice to know

I used to do a weekly calibration of several turbine meters for a batch process using vegetable oil.

we filled a plastic trash can to about 30 gallons[one batch] & weighed the result [minus the can]. we were required to be within 1%...

suggesting an acceptable test requires a more complete picture of the intended use & required level of accuracy...

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5
#8

Re: Calibrated Flow Meters

09/11/2010 5:50 AM

You could send it to an approved calibration lab. In the UK it would be an UKAS accredited lab (UKAS - United Kingdom Accreditation Service). They then carry out a calibration and provide certification. You might also look for SGS who do similar work. Hope this is of some help to you!

Register to Reply
Commentator
Canada - Member - I am from Canada Eh' Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - Condition Monitoring, Advanced Diagnostics and Engineering Services Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - Aviation Aftermarket Services for Honeywell Aerospace

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Saint John New Brunswick, Canada
Posts: 67
Good Answers: 1
#9

Re: Calibrated Flow Meters

09/11/2010 6:56 AM

The easiest thing I would suggest would be to ask the customer if they would be satisfied with a certification from someone coming in with a benchmark/calibration standard and do it on site.

If not, see the other posts.

Baby steps people...LOL

__________________
Better to have loved and lost than spend the rest of your life with a psycho.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 767
Good Answers: 58
#10

Re: Calibrated Flow Meters

09/13/2010 7:36 AM

Yes you can hire a contractor and no it need not be removed. Purchase of a pre-calibrated meter does not help as it will need to be calibrated at regular intervals.

Here is an extract

When seeking a calibration solution, flowmeter users have the choice of sending their meters to an outside primary standard calibration lab for service, or of employing a secondary standard portable calibration system that allows calibrations to be performed "in-situ" without removing the meter from service.

__________________
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (A.E.)
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 61
Good Answers: 3
#11

Re: Calibrated Flow Meters

09/13/2010 10:21 AM

The manufacturer is supposed to certify and guarantee the accuracy (within tolerance) of their products. You can go to the manufacturer and ask for the certified factory calibration/test report, you may have to pay a bit more but no manufacturer can make and sell a flow meter with unknown operating limits, that would be absurd so they should have proper documentation.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 11 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

dabdool (1); Garthh (1); gsuhas (2); iaa (1); Iris (1); john.longden (1); KJK/USA (1); RDGRNR (1); The Green Bastard (1); The Prof (1)

Previous in Forum: Radar Level Instrument Showing Hardware Fault on SCADA?   Next in Forum: Refresher Courses for Electricians
You might be interested in: Gas Flow Meters, Flow Meters, Paddlewheel Flow Meters

Advertisement