Flame Efficiency

Dear Craig, wow..... what a great idea, an appliance comisaria with altitude standards. My personal experience over the years tells me that cooking class's might go further in reducing wasted heat. We only have safety standards here... i feel so under served.

let us continue K .

Keep this dialogue open and who knows,maybe the manufactures and a standards code, and very qualified people including home inspectors will want to get involved.

Efficiency and conservation means MUCH less gas consumed, and MUCH MUCH MUCH less poisonous C O. into our homes from range / ovens which are not installed with flame efficiency as their guide. (here is where we have been let down) The other C O POISON mixes with the air and goes out the chimney, and can be GREATLY reduced by "optimizing".

The Combustion Analyzer is my best tool

And as I said the "Master Plumber" industry (and it's inspectors) are on point here, where, like it or not , flame efficiency is job one.(for the hoofs)

They test "plumbing" don't they ?

I have not run into an "appliance" yet that I could not fix in short order.

Colorado Energy Conservation (formerly Rocky Mountain Energy Conservation)

Question, What European country inspects with combustion analyzers on a yearly basis?

Craig my point was..... learning reduces inefficiency, and governments (ALWAYS) solve problems in infective ways. In my humble opinion....We don't need more government employees (inspecting) we need better chefs and teachers, teaching conservation. <Plumber" industry (and it's inspectors) are on point here, where, like it or not , flame efficiency is job one.> Many people will disagree, plumbers have no training in combustion, or how a chimneys works . I don't know why you are asking which European countries do combustion testing on home appliances …..Your post seems to me like you have an axe to grind..... Carbon monoxide is a gas mixture, which is poisonous in certain cases or conditions, It is not a poison.

K Thanks for correcting me on "poison", and I guess there is a certain amount of "sharpening" we all can/should educate ourselves on this subject. 30 or so years ago the gas companies and the plumbers collaborated to make sure everything was safe and efficient, but the training of apprentices has fallen short. The real point is that, using our existing system, the older Masters, can / should pass on this valuable information. ( I have) and the inspection process upgraded (using no more people than already exist ) New homes and all rental units are all inspected and certified (Certificate of Occupancy) I have found that very few people use a combustion analyzer as one of the tools they use to "certify" a home. This is not rocket science, it is a simple math problem, and some hand to eye coordination. (along with licencing, bonding, insurance etc.) Here is another question to sharpen........ If your range / oven (installed by certified sears or others ) puts out too much C O, and you get sick after cooking a wonderful thanksgiving dinner, can the installer or the manufacturer be held liable ? There is a flu season, how about a C O season. I hope that I am sharpening the Axe so it will cut more efficiently . Until this gets solved, make sure you well ventilate your kitchen during oven use, and of course never use it to heat the home.

Klearzen, I agree. Ronald Regan once said " The most terrifying words in the english language are, I'm from the government and I'm here to help". Have a great day, Bill G.

Quality of oil heater (Central heater burner) Quality car exhaust (2 X a year)

Opinion 1: This sounds like a good project for a nanny state (or other equally retentive entity, which makes me guess Germany as the country in question).

Opinion 2: Maybe there are enough instances of such poor fuel efficiency as to constitute a frequent and significant hazard. If so, a program like this might be justified. Inexpensive CO detectors also will help.

Most C O detectors go off way to high, but they are a start. (put one over your gas range and see if it goes off)

Would it be possible to determine flame efficiency with an IR signature?

Yes, some types gaschromatographs (analyzers) work on this principle.

also some one who knows the new green is BLUE

"If C O had B O ", we would have already fixed inefficient flames.

Minneapolis, and maybe other large cities, issues so-called competency cards for the construction trades (gas-fitters, sheet metal installers, and refrigeration installers). The origin of these 'ratings' was not to insure competency, but to 'fence' people out of work. Recognition of the injustice in recent years has broken down exclusionary walls, and made the trades more professional to boot. In many cases, the old masters were not always so masterful at all – without competition they didn't have to be.

You can be sure municipal inspections departments are cusp of "green becoming code" because that only reaffirms their self-anointed position in the construction industry. In fact, they are already pretty emphatic about the myriad already published codes and standards.

My local building officials require combustion analysis. In my experience it doesn't seem to me that my $1400. combustion analyzer does a whole lot better than a careful visual inspection of the flame, but seeing holes in the vent is reasonable assurance that at least some sort of consideration was given to insuring proper adjustments existed when the equipment left the factory.

Many plumbers, but not absolutely not all, educate themselves to the point of competency in combustion, hydronic heating, and even air conditioning to increase their marketability. The Union training programs probably introduce these other trades to their apprentices and provide a foundation for further learning.

finally some one who sees that the new green is BLUE.

Nanny state. Biased term. rant If private businesses are so damn efficient (they don't give a damn about customer safety, for sure) how come that 30" PGE pipe blew out yesterday evening, right on the evening news. No automatic shut-off valve. Musta saved a ton of money on that one. Four dead, five missing, ~40 homes ruined. Private company. The words you're searching for are "regulatory capture." Word up. Betcha the relatives of them dead folks wish there were functioning government. Of course we all know government is easy. That's why it's done so well. But no voter takes a civics test, no legislator needs qualifications, and every damn poster knows it's jest the gubmint. /rant

Nanny state vs what works - heck of a rant! Kind of hard to read but typically this type of rant tends to ramble on. Hold off on the pipeline exploding until it is known what the cause was.

This entire concept of annual appliance flame testing is an idea that should never happen! Just a way to screw the individual out of their money.

Using master plumbers to make sure everything is up to snuff - what does this guy charge? Another tool to put into a slimy unions pocket? No thanks!