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Anonymous Poster

Solar Panel System

09/24/2010 1:06 AM

Hi, all

i wanted to DIY solar power for my house,

appliances to be connect to the solar power.

TV - 2 pcs.

Laptop - 2 pcs.

AirCon - 1 pc.

40Watts light - 10 pcs

Washing machine -1 pc.

Wall Fan - 2 pcs

Refrigerator - 1 pc.

please advise how many solar cell and battery required to power the said appliances all the sametime.

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#1

Re: Solar panel system

09/24/2010 2:06 AM

You need to find the wattage requirement of each of these items, and also make a better determination of how many of them can be running at once (peak load), as well as an estimated daily average load. If this is off grid, you need to provide energy storage (most likely a battery bank) for the expected periods of sunless days.

Speaking very roughly, an "average" house might require about 4kw of averaged power, but a very energy-efficient house could do with less.

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#2

Re: Solar Panel System

09/24/2010 9:21 AM

I think if you read this you'll have a better understanding of what's involved, if what you want to do is feasible, and what questions to ask next.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Solar Panel System

09/24/2010 11:36 PM
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#4

Re: Solar Panel System

09/25/2010 2:27 AM

Lots! You will find this to be very costly!

You need to know and provide the actual consumption of appliances per day. You can use some type of meter such as kill a watt, normal powers meter on leads or in some case an amp clamp to learn this.

Your location makes a big difference - can't compare LA and Seattle.

The AC is the biggest killer.

Do you have grid power available?

Does your state or utility have net metering? or attractive FIT?

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#5

Re: Solar Panel System

09/25/2010 7:17 AM

The first thing you must do is to arrange your appliances so that the maximum load on your system is the load of the most "power hungry".

Then you arrange through switching, timers etc that this applianace can only be used when all others are off. In other words you limit, as much as possible your peak load on your system. This allows you to use smaller, less expensive batteries which is a great cost saver.

My own system which runs lighting and fans only,is satisfactory with a 12 volt 250 AH deep cycle battery and 150 watts of solar panels. The inverter is rated at 500 watts continuous and 1.2 Kw peak.

Running everything you list would need a minimum of a 48 volt system with 4 batteries and 600 watts of panels with a 2,000 watt inverter. Just as with mains power,keeping peak loads down is the secret of making a practical solar power system. Of course you will ALWAYS need some backup as bad weather can always happen.

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#6

Re: Solar Panel System

09/25/2010 7:34 AM

First, add up the wattage that each one of your devices use. Then go to this solar estimator (www.solar-estimate.org/index.php?page=solar-calculator), fill in your info, and it will estimate the size and price of the system you need, according many factors in YOUR area ... read all the info on your customized page ... very useful info. It will also take into consideration any State and Federal rebates (if you live in the USA). About 10-20% of the cost is labor, which you may be able to cut by DIY. Also look into solar thermal and wind ... and if you are lucky hyro. A complete spectrum approach is what I use.

{I got fortunate with wind {1/5 of my average daily}, otherwise I would never have done it.}

The bad news ...

Over a 30 year period, typically, you will get 5-15 years of 'free' nrg once the system pays for itself (That means you are paying for it over the first 15-25 years.) You will have to replace things (like batteries every 7-15 years - unless you get NiFe batteries which are very expensive - inverter at 15 years). If you borrow the money to have it done, closer to 5 yrs free, if you pay it outright, 10 or maybe a bit more free, depending on your latitude ... the closer to the equator the better ... the more 'sunny days' the better (closer to the equator doesn't necessarily mean more sunny days). Other factors to consider are, your area's current kw/h cost. The higher the cost ... and the higher your consumption, the sooner you will realize a savings. The info in this paragraph assumes tax credits ... without these tax credits, think ... doing it to 'save the earth' ... IE ... forget about it if you can get on the grid.

Due to current costs (even with rebates and incentives), PV systems are not attractive unless you are unable to hook up to the grid.

The 'equity' you tie up ... versus what you can make in 'interest' pretty much shuts the door, financially, in 99% of situations. VERY FEW REALIZE THIS.

So if you just gotta save the planet or you can't get on the grid, then read the first paragraph again.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Solar Panel System

09/25/2010 7:43 AM

I should also point out that you should check to see if the 'Value' of the system is taxable under your property taxes. Where I live it is not ... just trying to be thorough ... still I suspect I am leaving out 1 or 2 things (sleep factor is high).

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Solar Panel System

09/25/2010 2:58 PM

I voted this as a good answer. Your link:

www.solar-estimate.org/index.php?page=solar-calculator

was an excellent source for accurately considering costs, payback times, rates of return, CO2 savings, tax incentives by state, federal incentives and so much more, the only thing missing was battery backup calculations. The cost of a system without battery backup, ie using the grid with net-metering was still cost prohibitive to me.

With that said, the majority of my personal energy consumption here in Massachusetts, U.S. is used for heat and hot water, hence I was looking at something more like parabolic cogeneration with hot water created first, then electric as a byproduct of said heat: http://cee.mit.edu/node/2661

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=uK3XYJLQsZ4&vq=small

Step by step instructions: http://www.stginternational.org/media/tech/T05.html

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Solar Panel System

09/25/2010 4:02 PM

That solar estimator is just a bit of a joke - try the one Sharp USA provides

http://sharpusa.cleanpowerestimator.com/sharpusa.htm

Think you will find it somewhat more detailed and far - far more meaningful.

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#14
In reply to #10

Re: Solar Panel System

09/26/2010 2:33 PM

Since you are not in the USA, it might seem a bit of a joke ... for zip codes IN the USA, it is far more useful ... the joke is on you.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Solar Panel System

09/26/2010 2:56 PM

I found it very useful, it knew my exact cost per kilowatt based on my current electric provider, and it told me what size system I needed. It even accounts for inflation of electric rates for payback/internal rate of return. I can't justify spending 10k plus to save $50 a month, well actually I don't have ten grand in the first place, so I would have to borrow it and that makes even less sense.

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#16
In reply to #14

Re: Solar Panel System

09/26/2010 3:22 PM

A comedian possibly?

95% of the discussions on the solar sites I use and the one I moderate are in the US - where I grew up and still am a citizen.

Joke is on you friend.

The Sharp calculator is a very good tool.

Here it makes no difference as there are no subsidies/tax credits/incentives/FIT - only higher taxes plus import duties. Here solar PV makes absolutely zero sense and won't until the costs become more reasonable.

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Solar Panel System

09/25/2010 4:25 PM

For a solar thermal collector you might look at George's Workshop - an interesting guy that seems to have made a good system.

http://www.ffwdm.com/solar/solar-index.htm

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#12
In reply to #9

Re: Solar Panel System

09/25/2010 6:27 PM

Well if you are in New England you will have a lot more problems than here in Northern New Zealand. We have VERY few frosts even in July, our midwinter.

A parabolic collector is I am sorry to say a complete waste of time. It has to track the Sun in both alt and az and be seasonally adjusted as well. In your situation one of the special low temperature rated passive solar heating systems is your only reasonable option. We have a 4 sq metre solar water heater system on our roof and it saves several Megawatt/ hours of electricity a year. (We are at 36 degrees South latitude). Also we use passive solar heating from a glassed in conservatory. Even when the outside temperature is 8 or 9 degress C in winter the galssed area can get as high as 26 degrees and the warm air is blown into the house to supplement our heat pump. BTW do you have a heat pump installed? That would be a very good saving on house heating costs, they really do give about 3 times the heat for the same power. That is measured, not just claimed!

However where you are, you would need a heat pump system with a good low temperature rating and in the coldest periods you would still need some suplementary heating. That's based on Mike Holmes' programme on Tv and he is in Canada!

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Solar Panel System

09/25/2010 9:17 PM

You are probably right about the parabolic collector being a waste of time. The first one I built was with an eight foot satellite dish that I lined with acrylic mirrors, man did it crank out heat, but orienting it was beyond my abilities, analagous to holding a giant magnifying glass at the exact right point every second of the day, because if it isn't lined up perfect it doesn't work at all. I was thinking the troughs would only have to be oriented on one axis. The only thing I know for certain is my electric bill for my whole house with the ac running 24/7 (more on than off) for the month of august was only $48, so my focus is to supplement my gas hot water and gas heat for the house.

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#8

Re: Solar Panel System

09/25/2010 7:48 AM

DIY most likely can not be attached to the house without voiding the home owners insurance. UL approved equipment only is allowed. A yard located system is allowable.

Making DIY panels that last is not easy - regardless from what some of the silly ads claim. A real handyman has a chance. The ordinary type of guy would be better off to stay away.

If you have a grid connection it is far more cost effective to have a grid tie system with a standby generator for emergency power. Grid tie is far more efficient (less power loss) than a battery backed system.

Batteries are one of the expensive system components, require maintenance, if not correctly cared for are easily damaged (ruined) and require replacement after maybe 5 to 7 years at best. From what I understand a 7 to 15 year life would be exceptional.

Adding up factory numbers for appliances can be misleading - far better to actually measure the current draw for each over several days time.

As previously mentioned, the AC is the real killer - lots of power required.

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#17

Re: Solar Panel System

09/26/2010 4:45 PM

Well to sum up my own practical experience with alternative energy.

I built my house 5 years ago when I retired it is a Lockwood, solid timber, sheathed with 2 mm Aluminium and well insulated.

We have a Beasely (Australian) 4 Sq M solar water heating system built on to the roof with 2x 75watt photovoltaic panels at the optimum angle for our latitude.

I also have passive solar heating as detailed before and rainwater collection for "grey" water uses like flushing toilets..

The results have been that the solar hot water system is a great idea. It saves alot of power (several megawatts per year) and requires little maintenance. Indeed it should IMO be illegal to install anything else in a new house in NZ. The cost difference is only a few hundred dollars.

The photovoltaic lighting system works well, but is NOT an economic proposition. The main problem being the life and cost of the storage batteries. This is where the Australian idea of a subsidised mains/solar system is good. The grid is a very good energy sink/source.

Passive solar heating, in winter sunny weather is VERY successful and the rainwater storage is very handy too, despite the local council trying to charge me extra wastewater charges because of it.

Another useful idea is to install a heat transfer system, this can reduce both heating and cooling loads on your power.

So the idea is to find the best combination of an efficeint house with reduced heat loss in winter and heat gain in summer and use the most effective energy alternatives you can. Of course it is always easier when dealing with a new house as I was.

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