2001 Dodge 2500 Automatic

Leaks can come from many areas of the trans where external seals are utilized ie: converter/input pump stator seal, shift lever seals, brake band locking nut seal, extension housing gasket, pump to case seal and of course pan gasket just to name a few. As to changing the oil that often, and if it's dirty well there is not other reason for it to be dirty other than there is clutch material from excessive heating. There are no burnt hydrocarbons to contaminate transmission fluid thus rarely needed to be changed. You can read more about the issues of your 618 and such here: http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/32578#newcomments

If you have over 130K miles on it and you've pulled with it a bunch it's probably has had excessive heat and is going to have excessive wear. Hard parts like the overdrive planetaries have had issues in that model. It also would be to your benefit to have it placed on a good Matco or Snap on scanner to look for any soft codes that will indicate some of the erratic down shifting. Leaks are the most common means for transmission failure BTW. Have a good competent shop look at it and properly diagnose. It having a bad converter does not remotely sound probable. The hub seal maybe.

Thanks for your comments and advice. I have 53 thousand miles on my 2001 Dodge. I bought it new. The transmission shifts perfect with no load. Great gas mileage. When towing, and this happen the last time, I notice that the transmission down shifted. Plus it was on pretty flat land. No mountains. I was surprised and knew something was/is wrong. The fluid today looked dirty even with that low of miles. Plus the 5th wheel is a small 25 footer. Not a heavy one. NOW, when I first bought the truck, I had a heavy slide in truck camper (a Lance). This is a different kind of weight. Carries much different. I don't mind fixing it but I don't want someone to bill me to death. In other words this month I change the gasket, later he tells me to change the torque converter, and so on. The leaking is so small, only a few drops, but I don't want to be somewhere and be stranded. Especially since I'm crippled and can't walk a long ways. I don't think it's needs a rebuilt. Do you? I believe the transmission on this year has a bad reputation. Maybe trade it in on a Ford or Chevy? Miles being low, I could sell it but then I would pawn my problem off on someone else. ??? Help! Thanks, Bill Athens Ga.

It did over heat one time when I had my Lance going up that great big mountain in NC. I remember that night day. Climbing the mountain it downshifted by itself. The light came on. Still under warranty I called the dealer. He said "not to worry, just don't carry the camper in over drive from now on". No leak until warranty was gone. I'm not so sure about Dodge. Love the engine but dislike everything else. Such low miles too. Remember on 53 thousand miles on a 2001. Wanna buy a truck? J/K

"You're gonna need a bigger truck". It seems to me you are consuming this transmission. It may be just as well to trade up rather than get a lower rear end and a heavy duty drive line. It's probably shifting less because it is slipping more, putting more grindings into your fluid.

No there is no slipping at all. However it might start. When we changed the fluid the first time at 33 thousand miles, it was dirty, almost burnt. I knew then something was wrong. Shifting at that time was great. Actually it only down shifted twice. It just bothers me because the camper is not really heavy. Other than the transmission the truck is in pristine condition. Not even as much as a door ding. I did have air bags put on when I bought the truck camper in 2002.

I have yet to ever see a factory automatic transmission with an adequately sized transmission cooler system in place so most likely its been cooked a few times by now and the rubber seals have hardened which is why it drips a little.

Plus once you overheat an automatic transmission its life is greatly reduced and putting a bigger cooler system on it after that is sort of like going out to buy the fire extinguisher after your house starts on fire. Its too little too late.

Ok, I said down shifts a lot. Not true. Only twice maybe three times. But again we really don't use it much.

Are you able to have any of the work done by family or friends?

There are only a few places for your transmission to leak from. The front and rear reals, the oil pan gasket, and the manual shift shaft seal. If you can clean the transmission at do it yourself car wash, it should be easy to pinpoint the exact source of the leak.

The vehicle downshifting can have nothing to do with a transmission problem. If your air filter is dirty, or restrictive, the engine will lack power, and force the transmission to downshift to provide sufficient power for conditions. Same goes for a restrictive exhaust. (I am guessing that you have the diesel. If gasoline powered, the usual conditions that cause low power will also apply)

If you are not having any other problems with the transmission, You can do what you can to ensure as long a life as possible by flushing out the old dirty fluid, and replacing it with new fluid. An auxiliary transmission cooler is the best insurance you can buy. There may also be deeper transmission pans for your truck. Both ways of keeping that transmission cool will allow longer transmission life. Good luck.

Thanks a lot Bob, I do want to keep my truck. After all the miles are low and I really pamper this thing. I'm sure the Lance was over doing it though. I am sorry to say I have no one that can do anything for me. I am crippled but not dead. It's leaking from the front Seal is leaking last I was told. They also said "it's leaking for a reason and the reason is the torque converter is bent". I think they said bent. My filters have not been checked in some time. I only noticed the leak after pulling it in the garage the other day. I thought it stopped leaking when I changed the fluid about a year ago. But it has not. About 8 1/2 drops, not red either, but rather dirty which I know that should not be. I DID NOT flush the transmission when I changed the fluid. I know, I should have but I didn't. I do like the idea of a bigger pan, maybe synthetic fluid. I asked the fellow years ago about collant on the transmission. He pointed out that this heavy duty diesel had plenty of collant lines and an factory extra something. What that is I forget.

My Preacher friend will take the pan off and he's really good at hardly charging me much. Great guy. He change the fluid and gasket for 10 bucks a few years back. In fact that was the first tranny fluid change. We both noted then how burnt the fluid looked. Since then we changed it again, it also looked black and burnt. Today when I noticed the fluid it was dark but NOT burnt like before. However I was only looking at a few drops.

God bless your preacher friend. Try to find a deep pan and make sure it has a drain plug installed in it. If the deep pan does not have one, aftermarket drain plugs are available from Mr Gasket, or B&M. B&M should also have the deep pan. The drain plug will make the remainder of the transmission fluid changes a lot neater.

Who has any information on synthetic transmission fluid performance when converting from standard fluid?

Yea, Bob, God Bless him. I gave him more money it was worth it, easy but nasty job. It's a long story. He's a black man who opened a small shop here in the GA. town. I drove by going to mom's almost every day. I saw that no one ever was there. So I stopped and we talked. I really liked him. He done several small jobs, under charging me and I always gave him extra. He has moved to a bigger shop across town and now has plenty of business. We are still good friends. I think he remembers the only white boy around who would talk to him. :o) I was looking at a 2002 Chevy short bed diesel with a camper. Package deal, the man noted he had synthetic fluid in his transmission. His camper that is for sale is much bigger. His truck is close to the same year and according to specs isn't suppose to be able to pull much more than mine. His truck is a GMC 4x4 short bed Diesel, 2002 model. The camper is a titanium. Anyway, I had my camper for sale all summer, had bits but no takers. Money is tight. I know my truck will sell, it's really nice. IF however I have transmission problems then that's another story. I didn't know it was leaking till yesterday. My thoughts was to sell my camper, cheap, reduced to 10 grand, that's a great deal on that small 5th wheel, then sell my truck locally. A truck as mine with low miles should bring 12 grand. Just a guess though. HOWEVER if the transmission is bad then it's a whole new ball game. Anyone know anything about that GMC chevy Diesel 2002 model? Thanks Bob and everyone!

Oct. 5, 2010

Thanks so much John, Thanks for taking the time to write me and try to advise me. This letter is a little long so bare with me and I try to explain everything in detail. I'm not educated so bare with my English skills.

No you have not repeated anything. In fact I think I have a unique problem that is small right now but could develop into a much bigger one.The reason I think that is because of such dark fluid on first change with very low miles. Most people that have responded have tried to help but this is a kind of different kind of problem so nothing was said that was set in stone. Because of the few drops on my garage floor ( I knew was not suppose to be there ) I did take my transmission to several places a few years back. I thought, "well it's the front seal, (gasket). In my younger years I've changed a few of these and it's really hard with no shop (not in a big truck though). I knew the labor would be expensive, so I shopped around the area. However most all shops said "something is causing it to leak". Remember at this time the truck only had about 40 thousand miles on it (maybe less) In fact I'm sure it had less (33 thousand now that I think about it) . Oh yea first place I went was to my dealer. They said no the warranty was out at this point because of time.

Anyway, the two guys (in the country) said they seen this problem before with this transmission. They owned a shop out in the country. Very nice neat shop with lifts. Tools very neat. Things you look for. Plenty of business too. Since then I am told they open nice new shop on a main road and I've unable to locate them at this time. This was not a typical country shop, like most people would think. They had lifts, transmissions jacks, etc. They said it's more than likely my torque converter. HOWEVER they said they did not know for sure until they got in there but they strongly suspected that. Don't quote me but I believe they made their own converters. They pointed out that the leak was coming from a little spout which meant it was not the seal. I think they took off a small pan in front of the transmission. A cover pan. I left the shop after asking if I could watch. They said no because of timing when they would get to it. I was surprised I could not watch in this country shop. My truck has so few miles on it, and I really did not know these fellows were going to do. I thought they could switch transmissions (or valuable parts) and I wouldn't even know it. I'm cripple now so getting down is very hard for me. I'm basically a paraplegic but I can walk with assistance. So I took my truck to my preacher friend (David) he changed the fluid after this the leak stopped. I thought for sure my suspicions was right about the two men. David said he thought the original gasket got hard from heat. He pointed out the original gasket is cork. He installed a rubber one. A few months later I was pulling my 5th wheel and I notice that my truck down shifted. I was actually going up a very small hill when this happen.(very small) Then it down shifted again going DOWN the hill. I said to myself "oh boy it's actually gone now". I pulled over checked the fluid, it was fine, clean, a little dirty because like you said we didn't change the entire fluid (only half like you said), no leaks so I continue on my small trip to Chattanooga TN. After that brief stop. The truck stopped down shifting? I was pulling it in over drive like I always do. The shifting from then on on that trip was very normal. NO problems at all but very small hills to Chattanooga from here.

My RPM's go up when I pull in drive. It seems that the engine is working harder and seems to me EVERYTHING is working harder. Including the transmission. Even the heat on the motor goes up while pulling in drive. Plus in over drive in Florida, you can feel the transmission shift so smooth. No problems on flat land. I can understand if this was a very heavy object. 84 hundred pounds dry weight. GVWR is 99 hundred pounds. I don't know what these figures actually mean but the truck says GVWR on this truck is 89 hundred pounds. Not much, huh! Plus I order the towing package. I did point out in this blog that I first owned a big Lance truck camper. I had air bags installed when I bought that camper in 2002. The only problem I experienced going up a huge mountain in NC. It down shifted itself plus the light came on. This scared me! This is one big mountain too. Straight up it seemed like. I called the dealer right then. (still under warranty) He said then to use drive not over drive and assured me nothing is wrong. I know this weight is much different to carry and harder on the transmission. (see picture if you can) Plus my MPG is worse when using just drive and not over drive. I did read in the manual were I should pull it in drive not over drive but this 5th wheel is only 25 feet and so lite, like I stated there it shifts very smooth in over drive and SEEMS to run better.

Yes, I know you can't change all the fluid when you simply drain the transmission. I didn't know it was only half though. My preacher friend (David) said he was surprised it was so dark with so few miles on my truck. This was the first time it had been changed. It definitely needed changing. He said "he thought it was the pan gasket leaking and he said " the men MIGHT have been trying to take advantage of me". David did not have a lift. He installed a rubber gasket, we put cheap fluid in it (I'm pretty sure of that but not positive) and there was no problems after that. But I wasn't using it for hauling then either, just pleasure driving but no leaks. NOW when empty this truck shifts like a champ. Even with small weight it shifts very smooth. Like I said the few drops are back and the fluid is kind of red, but mostly dark. NOT BLACK, like before.

I did take it to a shop. They recommended a complete rebuild. They changed fluid again and not leaks again. 2nd time changed, I don't remember the miles.

My truck now has 53 thousand miles on it as of today. We bought the truck new in 2000 and I would like to keep it. I have learned that Dodge has a weak transmission, especially that year. My wife wants to take a trip to Florida for her 50th birthday. (Oct.12th) So what are your thoughts for me at this point. I am told by wonderful people in this blog just to drive it. My 2001 Dodge quad cab is in MINT condition. Except for this problem. I've had other problems that the dealer fixed and I'm not crazy about Dodge products. I've had a few problems, with one electric window, AC leaking freon (have to add two cans this year). Love the engine. The sound although loud but it's almost addicting when traveling. My address is billforgrace@yahoo.com or it might be better for all to use the blog. After all someone else MIGHT have had this problem too. Right? Thank you so much again John for taking time to write. Oh yea, the leak is only about 7 or 8 drops about the size of a quarter or smaller. I have notice any blow back at this time. So the leak might be ONLY when I stop?? I'll double check to see later about the blow back. Again, Thanks so much John for your time to respond to my problem, where are you located. I live in Athens GA. These are things I've thought about: A bigger pan? Thoughts on using synthetic fluid? I will have David (preacher man) change it first thing and use Mopar fluid. I really think a bigger pan would help. I am told in this blog to make sure the transmission stays cool. Maybe install something extra to make it run cooler?

I would just drive it. I can't see the torque converter being bad or causing the leak. If the torque converter was bad you would have other symptoms like weird noises or clunks or it wouldn't move at all. It is most likely one of the seals that others mentioned earlier. If you can live with a couple drops of fluid on the garage floor then i would leave it be for now.

Those transmissions are controlled by the computer and for whatever reason at that given time it instructed the transmission to shift, up or down based on inputs from the engine and sensors. It was probably doing exactly what is should have been doing. It may not have seemed right to you but to the computer it was. I think it is fine. If it goes out later and you have to spring for a rebuild your not out anything. Another thing is when the computer senses the temp is high it will automatically take it out of over drive and down shift if it isn't in over drive in order to help the transmission to cool down. That could have been your case. 25' trailer is still a good size load and the truck will know that extra weight is back there and will work harder than if it was an empty load or no trailer. If the outside temp was high and you were in overdrive with the trailer on it could have got warm enough to tell it to down shift. It is designed to do this. I would change the fluid one more time and make sure the proper fluid is used (ATF+) since you stated you replaced it with "cheap" fluid. That tells me that it was probably Dexron fluid. ATF+ fluid is not cheap, matter of fact I believe it is synthetic and ATF+ is what is called for by the manufacturer. If the wrong fluid was installed prior it could cause some shifting issues and premature wear. Also make sure it is full at all times. Check it whenever you fill up along with the engine oil.

I have a 98 Dodge 3/4 ton 4x4 with the V10 engine and I have 180,000 miles on it and it is still going strong. I know they have/had questionable transmissions. I must have been one of the lucky ones. I haven't had to do any repairs except for a water pump replacement and normal maintenance. I have been very happy with it. I expect you have a ways to go before you have to worry about your transmission. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Thanks again John, There is a man at our new church who works on transmissions. He said when they change the fluid the make sure and ad the fluid required for THAT transmission. He told me what it was and I'm pretty sure he said what you do. He isn't my preacher and the cost probably would be higher. I'm still thinking about a bigger pan. Take care, Bill

I must have been one of the lucky ones.

Not really, with the thousands of vehicles sold similar to yours, if 10% were trouble, it would be an major uproar. So perhaps 90% of those were just fine, and gave long service. But your advice to the OP was very good.

Very true. I didn't think about it in those terms.

I hope you read the part about oil changes in high mileage automatics to the link I sent you. I've been doing this for over 20 years and I learned the details related to the fluid mechanics, circuitry and individual component build and operation. Understand why changing the oil continuously is bad.

These units quite frankly are great. Their down fall, like many other units, is keeping the units cool, using good oil in the first place, and primarily catching leaks before the unit runs low on fluid and gets hot. We build these behind 800ft lb torque 24 Valve Cummings that we've modified for heavy pulls. They last! Specially built units will due to high performance and specialized parts. But a stocker like yours, can handle plenty of good loads providing they have good trans coolers and don't leak. After market coolers are a must for just about any transmission.

Very doubtful seals are hard or cooked by any stretch. You would be experiencing far different drivability problems. Again, get it on a diagnostic computer and start from there! Guessing starts to get expensive real fast.

Also, sorry, but please go to a professional who really knows these transmissions. Trying to save money by using inexperienced, well meaning folk, unfortunately, will cost you more in the long run. It just always seems to work out that way!

Thanks naturalextraction for the advice. If the fluid is burnt then I should change it. ? I think you will agree but that's a question. I know there MUST be a problem because the fluid smelled burnt the first change. My preacher friend is a good man but really don't know about transmissions. He told me the reason it was leaking is because the original seal on the pan had medal in it and the medal in the cork seal got hot. He put a rubber seal on the pan when we change the fluid and filter. The filter was also dark. I didn't see ANY medal shavings. HOWEVER before the preacher change the fluid I did take my transmission to a shop out in the country. These two young men worked on transmissions. That's all they did. The shop was at their house and I know it sounds like they are back yard mechanics. But you would have to see the shop, lifts, and how everything was kept. Then you might have a different thought on who these men are. They showed me where it was leaking. From a spout in front. (I think) It was in front, and only a drop perhaps two or three drops. The underside wasn't dirty so it wasn't leaking bad enough to blow back on the tranny (back end). THEY DID say, I must have a bad factory torque converter because it would not leak for no reason. At that time, the fluid didn't smell burnt. They was going to put a new, or rebuilt converter in and that should fix it. They did say they could put a better converter in but at a cost. I could be telling you wrong. I'm sure they said converter though. Since then the two men have open a shop and I'm unable to find the shop. The reason I didn't let them fix it then is because I asked if I could watch. They said no, they didn't know when they would get to the truck because of other work. They said we'll bring the truck in at any uncertain time. That made me very suspecious. I believe I asked about an extra cooler then. It's been some time so bare with me. They pointed out that this transmission had plenty of extra's to cool the transmission. I have the toll package. They showed me the extra fans, up front, etc. They did not mention a bigger pan, or snsythic fluid. Either these guys are REALLY good or they are crooks. They do have a good reputation and they are reasonable in their prices. I really like my truck. I love the sound, the MPG is around 17-20 without anything in it. I've got as high as 23 mpg on the hwy unload of course. I keep track of EVERY fill up, the MPG, log everything in a book. EVERYTHING I do is carefully noted in my book. So what is your advice. Forgive the long letter but I tried to explain things just as it happened. That way you won't be mislead. LATER after I met with the boys, the preacher changed the fluid. Naturally then I thought the boys was trying to get over on me. This truck shifts beautiful, and it's such a nice running truck. I think the truck camper was too heavy and put a lot of strain on the transmission. Even though the camper dealer said it would haul it easy. The weight is different with the truck camper. I know you know that. Carrying the weight instead of pulling. It was a 2002 915 Lance. I forget the weight of that camper. Thank you for your time. Bill

First, classifying transmission fluid as "burnt" is subjective to the person looking, feeling and smelling it. IF the oil is very "dirty" by than meaning black "stuff" left on your fingers if you wipe the fill level indicator stick, then perhaps some clutch material is present indicating some premature wear. If it was really burnt you wouldn't be driving.

As to the converter itself leaking, incredibly highly unlikely. How a new replacement converter would fix a mystery leak, quite frankly is probable nonsense, especially without an obvious visual confirmation. A cracked converter hub is a remote potential and if it was or even some anomaly of a pin hole in a weld or such, you'd have oil all over the place, not a couple drops.

What leaks from the bell housing area where the converter is:

a. Pump converter hub seal b. Pump o-ring c. Pump bolts seal leaking, that's about it.

I grew up on ranches, in rural areas and very small towns, I know that lifestyle. I realize the resources are limited and we tend to want to trust who's available. That being said, when and if your in a town that has an Auto-zone or the equivalent, you really need to have it scanned. Sorry there is a methodology to diagnostics. Your symptoms are really not a huge drive-ability problem, it seems, and to have it scanned will help give indication to a potential problem down the road or simply an electrical anomaly.

Quite frankly at this point there is not much else to do unless you want some one to take it out of the truck and inspect it. If you are leaking oil from the bell housing area, yes, it will need to come out. However it sounds as no one seems to be able to tell.

Also, metal in a cork gasket, never seen one. Silicone particulates yes. If the pan gasket was expanding it's usually due to someone over tightening it to where it leaks! Especially cork. Neoprene have less tendency to leak. Hope that helps some. Good luck with it.

fyi, a towing package rarely means a better, heavier duty transmission.

I agree. Nothing guarantees death for an AT more than overheating. As the fluid evaporates and vents it just keeps getting hotter and hotter until what's left eventually boils and then burns. Additional cooling is must for either towing or any off roading.

Bob

I believe he said torque converter. I thought he did but I could be mistaken and it wouldn't be the first time I got something wrong. I do know how important it is to tell everyone just what is happening. So I'm trying hard here. It's been a long time. I do remember him telling me this, "if it's leaking, then something is causing it to leak". That statement didn't seem right to me. I thought gaskets could leak for no reason. Maybe he said fly wheel. Is that possible? I'm really don't know what to do. The two young men are cheap on their labor and that was one reason for looking them up. Plus I heard good things about them from ONE person. When preacher changed the fluid it was VERY dark and my preacher friend did NOT say it was burnt. I said that. He did say he was surprised it was so dirty with that low of miles. We did NOT flush it, only changed the fluid and filter. Yes, I know there was a lot of dirty fluid still in the transmission. I do trust my preacher friend but the two men, well, I don't know. If I find their shop then I should NOTE everything they say and then tell / ask you. That is IF you don't mind. What I would like to do is fix the problem, then have other things done to reduce the heat and make the transmission stronger. Things like a bigger pan, etc. I wish Dodge had a temp. gauge. I don't like after market gadgets. I've heard Dodge has had a lot of problems with this transmission. I also hear the new transmission is much better. Especially in the new bid Dodges. Asin (spelling) is what I heard they put in them. My wife is having a birthday Oct.12 and it's her 50th birthday. We REALLY wanted to take the camper south. Thanks for all your help. IF it was yours, what would you do? Would you take it south, with the camper, and with the problem I have? Well it's late, have a good night, Bill from Athens GA.

Drive the thing. Check the fluid level frequently, and have some spare fluid on hand. Enjoy the trip.

I agree with Bob C!

Ok, Ft. Lauderdale here I come :o)

OK. I have my 3 qts of ATF. New duct tape on my flip flops. And I sprayed my cloths with scented bug spray. I'm all set. SHOTGUN!

Now that's funny, especially the duct tape part. I use to live in Miami when I was young. I was in 3rd grade and still remember the giant ants, and other large bugs.

My first experience with a lizard when I was working for an automotive repair facility was funny. I was rather surprised to fing the lizard, so I defended my self with a can of Chevrolet orange spray engine enamal. Once I had sufficently demonstrated just who was higher up on the food chain, we parted ways. about an hour later, one of the other workers commented to me that he had never seen a chamelion change to that particular color. He thought it was strange. Me on the other hand, did not think the color seemed that strange by then.

Did anyone speek english back then?

Yes, they did. My best friend spoke very good English while his parents didn't speak a word. We collected Hot Wheel cars. His family wouldn't let me in at first then once I was in they seem to love me like their own. We live on 7th street in Miami, in a apt building, South side of Miami beach (back when it was poor area), a large pink apt. building, don't know the address, and Hiahila (spelling). We was there during Hurricane Betsy. Spanish naturally was spoken by almost everyone. The people that spoke spanish could ususally speak broken English. South Miami Beach was full of Jewish people and a lot of English there. I was young and loved it. On the beach I went to Ider Fisher school, It was a rough school with small gangs, 3 stories if I remember right, maybe two. Very large school. I remember the Beach was full of wild cats. We called them Alley cats, wild but 100's everywhere. On 7 street I slept on the floor, small apt. My step dad work at Dod's Ave tire shop. He was a mechanic. So many memories, good ones. I remember wearing just my shorts, no shirt, no shoes when we lived on 7th street. My mom stopped me and said to my dad, "dad look at him". I was dark, blonde and stuck out amoung other people. Plus needless to say my feet was tough. Spanish shops was every where. Coffee shops seem to be most common but honestly I don't remember, I do remember the smell of the coffee. We always rode the bus line everywhere. We had mostly Spanish friends who ask about me to this day. Spanish people are full of fire. I remember arguements that today would bring the police. However once you was in their house, they loved you like your own. The apartments had no AC and almost all the doors was left open. I hear today, Everyone speaks Spanish. Little Havanan is the nick name for Miami. Yea, My parents moved around A LOT. Back for forth from TN. to Miami. every few years. Dad always worked on cars/trucks. He killed himself back in 2006. His mind was really never right. Very parnaoid and NO he never touched drugs, or did he ever drink. Well my life story, Good night!

Little Havana is a section of Miami. And many of the areas are still as you remember.

The Spanish are still very proud of their heritage. They still enjoy a good argument with friends. And it is still a vibrant area to live in.

While we are riding, we can go back to the old neighborhood, and check it out.

We lived on 7th street in a 3 or 4 story building on the corner. Next street up was SW8th street which was a very busy street. I wasn't allowed to go there but boys being boys I went all the time. I am told our building is still there. South Miami beach has change totally. I took our truck camper to show my wife where I lived. I couldn't find the place. Nor could I find the apt building on 7th street. We went on to Key West, the middle keys is what we like. The camp ground at Baha Honda is cheap and nice. To me those the old days was the best. I guess because both parents worked and I didn't have many people to watch me. When I took my wife to Key West, the bars where wide open, and chickens everywhere. We really didn't like the far corner of the keys. She loves to walk along the beach and look at critters. We never took our 5th wheel that far. However we took that truck camper everywhere. You ride bikes?

Non motor only. ( Wife insists I am not responsible enough yet) I am trying to ride my bike a little every day. Some times it is a week between rides. I just enjoy riding before my legs cramp up.