Previous in Forum: Belt Drive in a Vibrating Environment   Next in Forum: No Earth on Coil, 1997 Ford Falcon
Close
Close
Close
7 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster

100% Electric Car

09/28/2010 12:03 AM

After the great improvement in battery technology in the recent years, do you expect in 10 years time we will have only 100% electrical cars on the road ?

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Participant

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 1
#1

Re: 100% Electric Car

09/28/2010 2:59 AM

100% might be a bit optimistic. Most folks in industry I talk with expect 20%. And Hybrids will likely always be around because they fit a specific consumer need.

Reply
Guru
Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member Hobbies - Automotive Performance - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida
Posts: 5708
Good Answers: 123
#2

Re: 100% Electric Car

09/28/2010 9:08 PM

In 1932 Ford introduced the first mass produced V8. Do we still have inline 4s, 6s and V6 engines today?

In 1949 Oldsmobile introduced the first mass produced modern fully automatic transmission. Do we still have manual transmissions today?

In the 50s air conditioning was introduced by the American automobile industry. Do we still sell cars without air conditioning today?

Based on past performance, I don't think it is likely.

__________________
Bob
Reply
2
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#3

Re: 100% Electric Car

09/28/2010 9:39 PM

If you want piddle around in the woods for a week with your Jeep, you can throw in a few jerry cans of gas. I haven't heard of a week's worth of jerry batteries yet.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member Hobbies - Automotive Performance - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida
Posts: 5708
Good Answers: 123
#4
In reply to #3

Re: 100% Electric Car

09/28/2010 9:54 PM

GA.

Is this where I start about solar, and wind power to run the vehicle?

__________________
Bob
Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 570
Good Answers: 55
#5

Re: 100% Electric Car

09/29/2010 12:04 AM

100%??? It is to dream!

No, nothing remotely close to 100%. In ten years, I expect that at least 90% of all new cars purchased will be powered, in whole or in part, by ICEs. If, in ten years time, 10% of new cars sold are 100% electric then electric car advocates will have done very well. In the last 10-15 years, since the introduction of the GM EV1 and the Toyota RAV 4 EV, there has been essentially no significant growth in the electric car fleet. Ford Ranger pickups and GM S10 pickups are no longer sold in electric versions, and both the EV1 and RAV4 are no longer available. If you took snapshots of then and now, you would be convinced we are going away from, rather than toward, electric cars.

The Toyota RAV 4 EV and GM EV1 were the vehicles that would make America want to drive electric cars, we thought. Both had about the same range as the Nissan Leaf, and the GM EV1 offered better acceleration than the Leaf.

We don't have the infrastructure to use an electric car as a family's only car. Stations that can charge a 50kWh - 60kWh battery pack in a few minutes are not generally available, and are very expensive, requiring 480V 600A service per charging plug. Few Starbucks or convenience stores will install them until there is a large base of cars that can be quick-charged. In ten years, that is unlikely to have changed a great deal, because of the obvious chicken and egg problems. Many older cars will remain on the road, so perhaps 5% of the fleet will be electric (although I might have written the same 15 years ago -- and would have been completely wrong: far less than 1% of the current fleet is electric).

Maybe even 5% is too big a number. Who would want a pure electric if a plug-in hybrid costs less and is more versatile?

About 12 years ago the DC area EV club did an analysis showing that an EV, on a well-to-wheels basis, was somewhat more efficient that a typical ICE car. The equivalent MPG they came up with was 59 MPGe for the GM EV1. That is about the same figure as for the (original) Honda Insight, which was a little smaller and lighter (and much better than the typical small car). Current electric vehicles are less efficient that the EV1 (the Tesla being much less efficient, and the Leaf only somewhat less efficient) but the new MPGe numbers are all over the place -- with Nissan claiming over 300 MPGe at one point. (The problem is that there is no agreed upon standard for such calculations.) The point being that electric cars are efficienct, but not miraculously so, and generate as much remote CO2 as a highly efficient ICE small car.

The biggest single hurdle to overcome (to increase market share of electric cars) may be the fact that a a huge group of people like the ICE, even down to the way it sounds. Manufacturers spend millions on getting exhaust sounds "right"... not minimized as much as possible, but right. The new Mustang even pumps sound into the cabin from the engine compartment. There is tremendous inertia behind ICE powered cars in every sense: billions upon billions of installed manufacturing infrastructure, customer preference, customer ambivalence re the environment, the desire to be able to take a 400 mile trip at a moments notice, etc, etc.

Plug in hybrids, like the Volt, are the only hope for widespread acceptance of (mainly) electric vehicles in the next ten years. Having the advantages of an electric car for commuting without the crippling mileage limitation is hard to beat. A small engine, generator, and fuel tank are cheaper and lighter than a large battery bank.

It is interesting to consider sales of the Prius, the car most clearly seen as "green," and the car that shows that consumers will pay a small premium for a green car. If the market for green cars were strong, then the roads would be choked with Priuses, but in practice, Prius sales fall off as soon as gas prices go down. The Prius is a comfortable well-equipped car that asks the owner to make few sacrifices, other than paying a higher price than that of a Civic. Electric cars require greater sacrifices: less convenience, less utility, much higher price. If Prius can capture 5% of the market, perhaps electric cars could capture 1% or 2%?

In ten years, plug-in hybrids could capture perhaps 30% of the market, and the trend could be established to have most people commuting on electricity by 2030.

__________________
Si hoc signum legere potes, operis boni in rebus Latinis alacribus et fructuosis potiri potes!
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
2
Associate

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 48
Good Answers: 5
#6

Re: 100% Electric Car

10/12/2010 10:20 PM

Reality... The all electric car is as old as Detroit. They have been hiding in the background for all these years only to be given a dismal second chance. If you understand all the parts of the puzzle you might back away from the 100% theory.

All things considered the gas powered car is the best value per mile as compared to electric. No you say!? People never take into consideration all the associated cost that would apply in the real world.

First you have to satisfy Uncle Sam. He will want you to pay your share of taxes and so will the State you have it registered. The taxes that a gas powered car pays when buying fuel is never ending. The electric car will have to replace this lost revenue.

Looking at the average set of taxes on gas, it looks as if each electric car will have to pay $1200+ just for license plates. You will have to buy plates based on mileage you may never drive. This will help replace the lost tax revenues usually paid when buying gas. Do you think you are going to ride on the highways and not pay any tax? This is America!

Next, you will have to replace the batteries every few years. They do get used up (cannot hold a charge or fail). That is an added cost per mile that should be added in. A cost that most people ignore in electric cars and an expense that will rock your boat. Depending on the system voltage, $1500 - $2500 comes to mind. On gas cars you don't have to replace the gas tank every few years, on electric cars you do.

Buy the future fantasy battery, the one that will hold a charge to travel that magical number of 350 miles before recharging, and can be charged in a convenient but fast way. I can assure you this cost will be much higher than current deep cycle, and the fancy-dance batteries used today.

100 years ago men were building cars from scratch in their garages. If electric cars become common place and once people see how easy it is to make an electric one, Detroit will be out of business along with the local garages. Uncle Sam wants his taxes and his tax paying Detroit workers working.

Right now is the best time to home build an electric car. That is if you are driving around town and spinning less than 100 miles per day. Off the shelf components and you can avoid the taxes at the gas pump.

The better deal is to convert your car to compressed natural gas. We do not get this fuel from overseas and it burns clean at half the cost. Well, half the cost until Uncle Sam and your home State .... I think you get the point.

Think about this... Natural gas is used to produce electricity. This electricity is used to charge up your electric car. Why not cut out the middle man, and the expense, and run the car using natural gas?

There are some all electric cars out there today. The problem is that they are all over priced and some what of a novelty. Yes the batteries are warrantied for years but they will have to be replaced before the warranty is up at your expense. You prepaid for the battery change when you purchased the car.

There are other competitors besides electric. We both might get surprised. Let's wait and see what tomorrow brings. My guess, in 10 years, less than 20% urban electric vehicles.

__________________
rcf-jr - If there was anything hard in life, there would be a lot of people out of work.
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member Hobbies - Automotive Performance - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida
Posts: 5708
Good Answers: 123
#7
In reply to #6

Re: 100% Electric Car

10/13/2010 9:04 AM

Welcome to the insanity. And thank you for a well written post about the real world.

__________________
Bob
Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 7 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

bob c (3); lithiumstorage (1); MoronicBumble (1); rcf-jr (1); Tornado (1)

Previous in Forum: Belt Drive in a Vibrating Environment   Next in Forum: No Earth on Coil, 1997 Ford Falcon

Advertisement