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Anonymous Poster

Flux Field Question

10/14/2010 1:11 PM

Hello all, I have a question about an experiment I wanted to do. I have a 6 inch bar magnet of course poles on opposite ends,I want to attach this bar magnet to a1/2 inch thick 6 inch diameter piece of steel my curiosity lies in the flux field and how it would be altered by the plate? As i write this I believe it will be equal thru out the plate uniform. Still I'm going to do the experiment with shavings and see exactly the pattern. What do you think the pattern will be?

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Anonymous Poster
#1

Re: Flux Field Question

10/14/2010 1:21 PM

Please share your results with the forum. This will be a good learning experience for YOU!

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#2

Re: Flux Field Question

10/14/2010 2:05 PM

Are you placing the magnet radially from the edge of the disk, or axially from the center of the disk?

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#3

Re: Flux Field Question

10/14/2010 3:04 PM

Use 5/16 nirod @ 120 amps, that way , the magnet won't fall off.

Also, use ferrous metal shavings, the stuff in a electric shaver won't work (from experience).

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Anonymous Poster
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Flux Field Question

10/14/2010 11:16 PM

This only means you are not a rusty old Red Head!

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#5

Re: Flux Field Question

10/14/2010 11:21 PM

Have a look at this:

http://www.femm.info/wiki/HomePage

This is a small, free, Open Source program to help envision magnetic flux fields. If you are like me and prefer Linux to Windows, it runs well in Wine...

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#6

Re: Flux Field Question

10/14/2010 11:33 PM

Hello "Guest" ...

By my understanding of your description, most of the magnetic field will be re-directed by the steel plate. There will still be a small stray field at the ends of the magnet, but greatly reduced from the magnet alone. If you want to maintain the stray field, you should use a disk that is aluminum or other non-ferrous material.

Kind regards ...

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#7

Re: Flux Field Question

10/15/2010 3:24 AM

Magnetic flux follows the path of greatest permeability.

Because the plate has a higher permeability than the surrounding air, the flux will actually distort and compact to stay inside of the steel plate along the flux path length.

However, the flux must enter and exit the plate because single ended flux (research Solar magnetic flux shearing) is a very unstable condition. Flux will reposition through any low permeability material to reconnect with other flux of the proper polarity for its B vector.

In reality, any given magnetic value measured at the pole surface, can be followed spatially to map out a 3D toroidal surface, some of which is inside the magnet. Everywhere along that 'surface' the measurement will be the same and the B vector will be the same (purists will note that the B vector ends at the poles and the H vector exists internally). The magnetic strength of that surface is representative of the surface area (which is why the inverse cube rule primarily applies to permanent magnets rather than the inverse square rule).

Your steel plate only provides a better path for the flux, but the area of those toroidal flux surfaces remains the same. So you can squeeze the shape around but you cannot change its net product. For example, imagine that you use some HYMU-80 to provide a short circuit from one pole to the other in the shortest possible path. ALL of the flux could be contained within the 'keeper'. Because the flux surface area is reduced, the Gauss is increased, one is traded for the other. So conversely, if you stretch one of the flux surfaces out for several meters, the Gauss everywhere on that flux surface is greatly reduced compared to that closest to the magnet.

Iron filings do not accurately portray the flux surface because they themselves provide new flux surfaces and are interactive. The result of this is that we get these 'lines of force' that are odd averages of the total interactions. So we change the landscape by looking at it that way.

You can model your experiment with FEMM or Vizimag to see how the flux follows the higher permeability material until the size constraints force it out of the material. But these are only 2D cross section models.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Flux Field Question

10/15/2010 11:40 AM

Just an aside- there are 3D modelers out there (Elmer comes to mind) for magnetic flux, but they are a whole lot more difficult to set up properly, and for this particular question, may not be worth the effort required! The 2D models are much easier for one not accustomed to working with FEA...

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Flux Field Question

10/15/2010 1:00 PM

thanks all for your contribution to this discussion now to play around with some experimenting.

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