UK Electrical Regulation

Scrap NICEIC? Perish the thought!

Along with the cr^p they produce it's no wonder they all seem to wear cargo pants.
I'm a member of another electrical forum, they spend all the time quoting regs to each other. Changing a consumer unit used to be common sense and good workmanship. Now 50% of it seems to be filling in paperwork that nobody will ever look at or verify. The NICEIC should have been scrapped years ago before it became a management puppet.
I'm just glad I went in to heavy industrial electrical and not domestic. 3 house rewires in 35 years was enough for me!

I don' want to sit on the fence here but, i think Tony's correct about an engineers common sense. And i do not find the regulatory system efficient. the regulation are hear to protect people that is most defiantly true, and as you are aware theres lots of them, my favourite is E.M.C 2006, yes I'm sad I'd rather read a book of regs than a novel.

The existence of regulations is not the problem, it is the lack of power backing up the use and implementation of the regulations. I believe in the U.S.A they have a licence to carry out electrical work, and i believe it is illegal to buy and sell electrical fittings unless you have a licence. Has this improved the situation in America?.

I think there are to many body's in the U.K,i believe we should scrap everyone of these Quangos body's and have just one Government body that deals with all aspects of electrical work in the UK, for example offering calibration services, equipment hire, design services, certification. All under one roof with more efficient cost that should make electrical cost more reasonable to the customer.

Also going back to the common sense statement, in the old days an apprenticeship was a good way of weeding out those who where not that good at the job, surely if we had only one system it would be easier to keep track of bad workmen and some how ban them from practicing.

Some areas of electrical administration should be provided by the government at no profit, paid by the electrician on a yearly basis, instead of all these money making organizations.

Perhaps i'm a bit red.

Yes you are so right, but this is the way it works, way to many trying to do so much with little or no knowledge of what really required.

would removing the regulatory bodies help? Maybe! to be replaced with who? Better the devil you know in this case. but would it not be better to make the devil work smarter and better? Give them more teeth, a better bite?

well they have it, but are reluctant to use their bite, again I speak from experience!

Are there to many regs..... maybe, but regs do have a way of covering your arse, and you are thankful for them if it goes pear-shaped.

As for common sense .. not available in good book shops, in colleges or Tescos. As for cowboys.. everyone wants to be John Wayne.

brich - you must work for the government on this or be a very union type! Not my type of person at all. I detest unions just for the record! Are you an engineer by virtue of passing the city & guild exam?

Good regulations are a must but intelligent regulations are equally necessary. Regulations that serve only the unions are BS.

In the US (in states where I have lived anyway) anyone can buy any electrical part. I did run into some busybody type at a big box store that didn't want to sell me a flexible connector for a gas connection to a dryer one time - set him straight in short order. He had not legal point but was trying to enforce his personal wisdom on everyone else.

Quote, 'A Weekend DIYer is a dangerous breed of person, in the electrical industry, a little knowledge is not only dangerous, but deadly. Many people are not aware that with electricity you can't see or smell it but it has a deadly bite!' end quote.

Wow! Never woulda thunk it! Electricity dangerous? 220 volt?

Some tasks are not in the DIY domain in the US and must be done by a licensed electrician only and correctly so.

Some people should not try DIY while most are capable of many tasks. For electric or gas installations, an inspection by the authority is adequate. For your own home - you should have the right to DIY with adequate inspection by the authority!

Quote, 'The UK insurance companies pay out millions each year on bodged jobs around the home, mainly floods and electrical fires from would-be " I can do this" weekend DIY'ers and its coming to an end PDQ!' end quote.

That is a stupid insurance company.

Sounds like this is what happens when lifetime government officials run the show.

nope not union at all, not a fan of them either, nor do I work for the government and just because I passed both 16th & !7th does not qualify me to call myself an engineer, other qualifications do it for me!

However I cannot see what useful contribution you have to offer to this topic as you live in Turkey, even if you are an Expat.

Yes who would have thunk it that electricity is dangerous.... many people don't know it, but taking one sentence out of context is not really clever or productive, and insurance companies in the UK DO pay out for bodged jobs.. sorry times we live in, and yes that is what happens when life time government officials run the show.

So if you have something to replace the system we have in the UK of which you are not a resident, please share, if not please keep your sarcasm to your self there's a good boy! Have a nice day!

Honestly, I can not see where you added anything of use to the discussion since you bring up that point.

I am having a wonderful day thank you - though that has nothing to do with this thread.

From what Tony posts you definitely have a problem and with your attitude it doesn't seem you will be part of the solution.

Protected workers are never of benefit to the public!

A person should not be appointed as an engineer simply because he passed an exam in theory like EC exams. He should undergo a period of training in practical aspects of engineering and should pass an exam in practical aspects and regulations before getting appointed as an engineer. Similar to granting charter to engineers technicians should be certified after gaining sufficient knowledge.Until such time the engineer or technician should work under an experienced engineer/technician as an assistant. In some third world uncivilised countries professors in universities simply support inexperienced graduates due to "engineering racism" to keep graduates above incorporated engineers and in their institution of engineers they donot admit incorporated engineers but they admit technician engineers.This is in violation of the basic principle in the Engineering council of UK.Those engineers who are responsible for this kind of racism are admitted in british EC.Very funny situation?. The Engineering council should open its eyes.

When I come across a "house basher" (registered etc) gloating that he's just landed a rewire by frightening people by quoting regulations, it makes my blood boil!

Did have a chuckle though when one was complaining of a 100A fuse/switch blowing up in his face. As I pointed out to him "it's your own fault, you brought it on yourself". (Replacing a 100A cartridge with fuse wire).

The major problem in UK is their regulations.For example BS7671 is not written in easy to understand language and covers only wiring in buildings..Therefore IIexE and not IEE have published an illustrated guide to wiring regulations. Similarly there is no publication for motor circuits. But in USA the NEC is very easy to understand and covers almost all aspects of electrical works. For example for sizing cables or protective devices for motor circuits NEC says cable should be 125% of motor FLA and MCB should be from 125% to 250% of FLA. BS do not specify similarly and also do not specify the maximum vd at equipment terminals but says it depends on the manufacturer's limits of tolerance for satisfactory performance of the equipment..But it will say generally 6% or 10%.Then comes the vd during starting of motors,how much is allowed at the motor terminals?. Similarly the max vd at generator terminals during running and starting of large motors should be specified. If britishers prepare a document BEC(british electric code)similar to NEC covering all aspects of electrical works there won't be any confusion in the minds of technicians as well as engineers.

GA. You are so right, there is nothing tying them all together. But would a BEC be accepted? Maybe, it would make my work easier, but put a lot of organizations out of work.

I suggest to publish the BS 7671 in many parts like: part 1-wiring lights and sockets including lighting design in homes,offices etc part 2-industrial wiring including lighting design part 3-marine installations part 4-railway installations part 5-installations in aircraft part 6-special installations-indoor/outdoor stadiums,FP/hazardous areas,bath rooms,swimming pools,caravans,street lighting,decorative lights,sign lights etc At the moment only wiring in buildings excluding factories is included in BS 7671.For others one should refer many other publications whose names even are not known to many