Previous in Forum: Fan Cooling Power   Next in Forum: Water Bubble Noise
Close
Close
Close
5 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1294
Good Answers: 35

Experimental Evidence for Heaviside's Ellipsoid?

10/25/2010 1:13 PM

Background:

I've tried searching cr4 for discussion on this, I've done some googling, and I'm skimming (one of?) Heaviside's books on google, but maybe somebody can save me some effort.

I'm trying to better understand Einstein's theories of relativity, and maybe how Einstein came up with them. I think I have a fair understanding of the theory of special relativity, but in trying to understand how Einstein came up with it, I'm looking back at the Lorentz contractions and trying to understand how Lorentz developed those.

Getting closer to the question:

IIUC, some of that has to do with Oliver Heaviside's --hmm, what do I call it--his theory (?) that, (iiuc) as a charged particle (with, iiuc, a spherical electromagnetic field around it at low speeds) is accelerated closer to the speed of light, the field becomes ellipsoidal in shape (in my words, like a flattened sphere, flattened perpendicular to the direction of movement).

Further, iiuc, he developed that idea mathematically from Maxwell's equations.

The question:

My question is, has there been an experiment or other physical observation that confirms the ellipsoidal shape? (I don't doubt it a bit, I'd just like to read about any experiments or observations that confirm it, especially any that Lorentz would have had access to.)

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: ellipsoid Heaviside relativity
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Thousand Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 187
Good Answers: 9
#1

Re: Experimental Evidence for Heaviside's Ellipsoid?

10/25/2010 11:56 PM

This is not an effect that can be observed. If you are travelling along with the particle, your measuring apparatus is subject to the same Lorenz contraction, you see the field as a perfect sphere,, further if you could look outside and see other spheres that were "at rest", they would appear flattened, but you don't know really know who's moving,,, blast! It's all relative... One cannot really say if there is in reality a "flattening", it depends on your frame of reference. It is really a construct that is useful in predicting a number of phenomena. The flattening is there for the observer at rest, but not for the observer at motion, does it exist? Theory says yes, and no, sounds like a Quantum Mechanics thing,, it is, it isn't, it's both, till you look. Now if you are accelerating,, well you are getting into General Theory and I really do not have the maths to understand it.

Cheers, Martin

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1294
Good Answers: 35
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Experimental Evidence for Heaviside's Ellipsoid?

10/26/2010 7:05 AM

Martin--thanks!

I may continue to skim the Heaviside book--I guess for my purposes it is just as good that Lorentz had access to this, so he had some clue that there might be something like a length contraction.

I did find reference to some journal articles that presumably address the subject. One is:

The origins of length contraction: I. The FitzGerald?Lorentz deformation hypothesis]]; American Journal of Physics -- October 2001 -- Volume 69, Issue 10, pp. 1044-1054

The only problem is that most of those articles (all that I've found so far) require payment for access (on the order of $30 US). So, I'll make a list of the articles I'd like to look at, then contact one or more of the local colleges / universities and see if they subscribe to those journals (and if I can get free access, which I have done before).

Register to Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#2

Re: Experimental Evidence for Heaviside's Ellipsoid?

10/25/2010 11:59 PM

http://www.metrolyrics.com/the-journey-to-the-heaviside-layer-lyrics-cats.html

(Dedicated to Del! from the musical "Cats") (Heaviside Layer = ionosphere.)

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Commentator

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Circe,9 Majadahonda 28220. SPAIN
Posts: 94
Good Answers: 2
#4

Re: Experimental Evidence for Heaviside's Ellipsoid?

10/27/2010 7:48 AM

Adelante ¡¡¡

Best wishes,

ARTURO

__________________
QUIMERA
Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3
#5

Re: Experimental Evidence for Heaviside's Ellipsoid?

11/02/2011 8:39 AM

Heaviside derived from Maxwell Equations the mathematically
correct deformation of electrostatic fields in motion.
But the concept of "motion" was wrong. Galilean Relativity
admitted only relative motion of inertial referentials,
each referential appearing to itself as stationary. But
Heaviside, with all physicists of his time, considered
intrinsical, proper motion with repect to the absolutely
immovible aether, which entirely corrupted Galilean
Relativity. Thus he saw the deformation as an intrinsical
modification of the structure of the moving field affected
by the dynamic interaction with aether. In the light
of the Special Relativity we see this deformatiion as
false, not altering the intrinsically "real" structure,
but only apparent, when seen from another, relatively
moving referential.

It was a rather harmless error, easy to correct
and above all, inavoidable in the pre-MM context,
but none the less an error.

And upon this error Lorentz with FitzGerald constructed
a barefaced trickery destined to save at any price the
aether falsified by the MM experiment.

By analogy with Heaviside they posited that the (totaly
unknown, hypothetical) forces holding the molecules of
rigid bodies in equilibrium undergo the similar dynamic
interaction with aether resulting in contracting the
molecular interspaces and the body itself. Lorentz
derived his contraction formula and to fully account
for the MM disaster, completed it ad hoc with the time
dilation without a slightest attempt to underpin it in
any way. Thus he arrived at his famous Transformation,
often misrepresented in the literature as anticipation
of the Special Relativity adopted by it as it stands.

In fact both transformations have strictly nothing in
common, else than the final algebraic formula. The
original Lorentz Transformation posits a real intrinsical
contraction of molecular structure plus a deus ex machina
time dilation.

SR's Transformation defines apparent distance contraction
and time dilation when observed from an external relatively
moving referential without affecting in any way the
intrinsical dimensions of the observed referential.

And last, but not least, SR did not take over the 3D+T
original Lorentz Transformation, but derived it anew
as the hyperbolic pseudo-rotation around imaginary angle
in the 4D Minkowski SPACE. It should be called Einstein-
Minkowski Transformation, but as it finishes with the
same algebraic formula, Einstein with his painstaking
disposition to give credit for a slightest shade of a
reason, incorporated it in the SR under the name of
Lorentz Transformation.

Thus, the same mathematical formula masks diametrical
physical disparity.

Georges

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 5 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

ARTURO (1); baxterm (1); rhkramer (1); Tornado (1); zgm (1)

Previous in Forum: Fan Cooling Power   Next in Forum: Water Bubble Noise

Advertisement