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On-site Gas Analysis Services?

11/14/2010 8:12 PM

We run a hot-wire CVD process. We flow both inert and hazardous gases to achieve this. From what we know about our process, we know that it is very very sensitive to gas purity, accurate metering of gas flows, and extremely intolerant of water / oxygen contamination. We could really use some expert analysis of our situation to 1) accurately assess our current gas purities at several points in the system 2) make recommendations on what process or analytical equipment we may want to purchase to help us stay on top of this situation in the future (avoid long lasting, hard to detect problems).As such we are asking ourselves the following sort of questions.. are the gases we are purchasing...1) really what their CoA's promise they are? 2) Remaining pure while in our bulk storage containment, and immediately downstream of it (i.e do we have moisture or other contaminants in our bulk tanks)3) Remaining pure at the point of use in the process?4) In particular do any of our process gases somehow have moisture or oxygen contamination that they are bringing into the process?5) Do we have any leaks in our system that are allowing atmospheric contamination into a process gas stream.What we really need is someone to come here and answer these questions for us (or at least give us clear steps toward answering these questions), and depending on the findings recommend ways we can stay on top of the situation going forward (analytical equipment to buy, etc)Can anyone offer any suggestions on where to look for this sort of service, or happen to know of any particular company that does this sort of thing. I know of a one or two, but since it is a significant expenditure would like to be able to 'shop around' a bit.I imagine we will find a gas analyzer to be a useful tool to have, but would prefer to hire an expert if possible to make purchasing recommendations. Thanks!

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#1

Re: On-site Gas Analysis Services?

11/14/2010 9:52 PM

Wish I knew where you're from. If in Europe, Russia or Middle East you can contact U.O.P. NV technical services in Antwerp Belgium.

There you will get everything your heart may desire, including a full service to optimize all your processes.

I have been in the run for them for more than 20 years, they have the big stack of technologies in there.

When I was analyzing processes, I preferred to put my tent as close as possible to the measuring point, so I could present my results 30 minutes earlier than the plant lab with walls of analyzers.

You will need to install measuring point at crucial points (MP). We used Schwagelock or Gyrolock 1/4" or 1/8" stainless steel valves and 1/8" -1/4" O.D. stainless tubing.

As far as pure gas: we mixed our test gases ourselves based on what to expect in the stream and could derive accurate retention times and peeks, before we went to the test fields.

It would also be nice to tell something more about what you doing. Sometimes it does matter a lot what is in the process stream. Dryers can malfunction when moisture is there, compressors can fail, a shutdown can occur, to name some.

Further, your instruments are just as good as the calibrations you do yourself and high precision probes in the stream get contaminated and need recalibration all the time.

You want a good moisture analyzer, oxygen analyzer, and depending on your (DOP) processes, more typical one element types. Again the same for analyzers, how critical you want to measure, response times, sensitivity If you need more specs, Pm me.

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#2

Re: On-site Gas Analysis Services?

11/15/2010 2:29 PM

You mention the possibility of leaks in your piping. This immediately sent up a red flag in my mind....do you have compression or threaded type fittings in your piping?

If you don't, then please disregard.

If you do, your problem might reside in the piping itself.

Your CoA's may look good, but "leaks" at compression fittings or in threaded joints could be allowing moisture to be sucked into the line.

If you have the ability to do so, I would suggest that you first try to conduct an "in-board" leak test of your piping. In an inboard leak test, a deep vacuum is pulled on the line and all of the fittings (compression or threaded) are "squirted" with Helium gas. The helium gas molecule being one of the smallest particles in existence (second only to diatomic Hydrogen) will work its way through any cracks in the fittings. If the joint you are testing has a leak, the helium leak detector connected to the vacuum pump will show the spike and you will know that that particular joint has an issue.

An inbound helium leak detector (with integrated vacuum pump) cost about $30k to $50k - plus they are not something that you can go out and use without proper training. For this reason I would recommend that you contact a specialist. Once specialist that comes to mind is QAM. If they don't service your area, they probably know who does. Here is there website --> http://www.qam.com/. (If you do end up calling them, be sure to give props to Johnny Osborne - an old friend.)

Another less expensive way to find leaks, but one that will not provide as much certainty, is to pressurize the line with a forming gas mixture of Hydrogen (H2 in a concentration less than the lower explosive limit in atmosphere) and walk the line with a Hydrogen leak detector. Checking each joint with the H2 leak detector should reveal if you have a leak. In general, this type of test, which is an "out-board" test, will not certify the "tightness" of your system as good as an inbound test, but the Hydrogen molecule is much smaller than the Helium and should reveal if your piping has leaks. Last time I check, a good Hydrogen leak detector can be found for about $3k.

None of what I am saying is meant to be taken as professional advice and you need to consult with your local, state and national code authorities when it comes to certifying piping for a hazardous gas delivery system or for a system that could introduce an asphyxiant into a confined area.

If you do find that you have leaks on the system, you need to strongly consider replacing your current piping with orbital welded, electro-polished, stainless steel piping - and wherever you have to make a mechanical joint, these should be done using VCR type fittings.

It is also my understanding that whenever you have a Hazardous Production Material (HPM) delivery line, all mechanical connections are required to have gas detections sensors that are integrated into your control system which will shutdown the line if a leak is detected (International Fire Code, International Building Code). (Orbital welded starts to look cheap when you consider leak detection sensors every 15 feet.)

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Paul

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