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Power Generator "Surging"

11/29/2010 8:45 AM

Hi all:

3-phase,380V, 50hZ, 750kVA Cummins Stand-by Power generator is having problem.

We start it monthly for 15 minutes to check the condition. At such condition, the generator is running without load. But at it starts for ten minutes, I hear that there is a surging inside the engine. The voltage varies between 360 and 380V and the frequency does the same. Vroom, vroom, vroom... sound keeps repeated and repeated.

When it is running without load, the same situation happens but it may gets worse since the generator carries load now. The sound is heavier, the fluctuation is bigger 350 instead of 360V.

As we let it runs for half and hour, the situation itself disappears. Voltage and frequency now are stable.

If we start and restart it several times, the situation gets better and better. It is like the power generator is warm enough after such actions.

Could anyone tells me exactly where is this situation originated from? Even we run without load, there is a cloud of dark smoke discharged from the exhaust system. What this may say?

Also, could anyone suggest me how I could make a correct word to describe the sound of generator when it is stable and unstable? Vroom ... maybe is not correct.

Regards,

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#1

Re: Power Generator "Surging"

11/29/2010 9:15 AM

Greetings,

When was the last time PM (preventive maintenance) service was performed on the engine?

Could be any number of engine related issues.

Your comment "there is a cloud of dark smoke discharged from the exhaust system" indicates perhaps a dirty air filter or dirty/semi clogged injectors, bad fuel (stale)/water in fuel to name a few, if your are getting a "cloud of dark smoke' all the time and not just for a few seconds during start-up.

Perhaps now is the time to contact the manufacturers service rep to schedule PM service.

As far as "correct" words, your description was fine.

Here are a few other common descriptive words - When engine is running "stable" you can use the words "engine is running smooth" or in the case of "unstable" you can use "engine RPM is surging" or "engine is surging".

Good luck

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#2

Re: Power Generator "Surging"

11/29/2010 11:28 AM

This is not my field of expertise, but when my neighbor's snow blower was surging like this, the suggestion (from somebody else) was to make sure the air filter was clean. (Of course, that surging was continuous, it did not stop after 10 minutes.) Maybe another possibility is the fuel filter.

(It also appears analogous to situations I've seen with coal mine ventilation fans surging--the bottom line was that the air resistance was higher than designed--a lay diagnosis described the problem as "pulling the air in two" ;-)

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#3

Re: Power Generator "Surging"

11/29/2010 12:00 PM

Try the governor spring. As a governor spring ages it gets weaker and needs replaced. I've corrected this problem on many of small engines I've worked on in the past.

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#4

Re: Power Generator "Surging"

11/29/2010 12:26 PM

It sounds like you are getting what we call "wet-stacking" from running unloaded. Depending on the governor the gen can surge and 'hunt' until it clears out.

If you run under load for a while, until it clears out, and then stop and restart after the engine cools down and the engine governor is again hunting you very well may have an issue there in the governor or the governor control if it's electronic.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Power Generator "Surging"

11/30/2010 12:04 AM

this happens on many equipments.for rotating equipments ,if it is not used everyday then it should be rotated atleast one rotation everyday.

for generators ,it should be started atleast every week.and that too by creating similar situation for which it is intented.ie if has to be started automatically when power fails ,then the power supply to cut off or relay to be energised.also it should be loaded too.and every month it should be worked with its overload capacity.and in each 6 months it should be loaded and run for 30 to 60 minutes.

the similar method has to be adopted for batteries too.it should be loaded and worked.

ty

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#6

Re: Power Generator "Surging"

11/30/2010 4:26 AM

Words: running smooth (no intermittent surging) and hunting (Surging repeatedly).

If the engine is hunting then the reason is the governor is unstable. Usually, there will be a gain setting on the governor. The governor keeps the speed sonstant. It reacts to any change of the speed due to the load varying. If the gain is set too high, the reaction to a very small load variation will be too great and will make the speed to overshoot the set speed. This in turn will now reverse the action and undershoot. This can keep going on ... hunting!

The 1st thing to do is to check the governor settings for gain and reduce it in small steps until there is no more hunting. If this works then you have corrected the fault. If not, if it gets worse, the your problem will be as described by others: Filters, injection nozzles, stacking etc.

But since at no load it is hunting, then most probably, the governor setting is too high.

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#7

Re: Power Generator "Surging"

11/30/2010 9:11 AM

I have yet to see anyone suggest "loading" the generator. Load up the generator to near max load while running, and let it sit and hum.

What has been said here so far I agree with, govenor springs get weak when they sit. Potentiometers will draw up water and change values - so yes, govenors will have difficulty if left "un-exercised." Wet-stacking of the engine is also a problem when running unloaded. The system doesn't develope the heat necessary to burn out all the gunk that builds up with short runs. (On a side note, engines that run continuously show less acidity in their oil - in general - than engines that are constantly run for short periods of time and not allowed to warm up).

Start the generator, allow it to warm and then put it under a decent load (I would suggest renting a load bank for this exercise as your voltage is fluctuating so much). Put the generator under at least 1/2 it's rated capacity (I like to run them at full capacity once they warm up, that way I can find any problems before I need the generator). Run the unit for a few hours loaded, and then shut down the load. Allow the generator to continue to run unloaded for about 30 minutes to cool the alternator. Then shut down the generator. If nothing else, this will help to remove stale fuel from the fuel tank and ensure the damn thing runs!

Chris

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#8

Re: Power Generator "Surging"

12/01/2010 1:16 AM

As per your detail.....The problem is in Engine...when the engine plays this kinda noise the the load occurs on engine nd the rpm goes down. with the rpm voltage also goes down..so you just chek the engine part. or call the cumins service engineers for chek it... Kunal Gautam Electrical Engineer

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Power Generator "Surging"

01/05/2011 10:38 AM

Everybody, I have good news on the issue that the genenrator is working well again. Anyone wanna knows why?

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Power Generator "Surging"

01/05/2011 10:44 AM

I'm curious, please tell us about it.

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Power Generator "Surging"

03/02/2011 4:28 AM

Mrclean,

Actually, we have pointed out most of the related issues. This generator has been leaving there and no one cared of it. So the feul filter may get stuck. Thing is, someone has adjusted the fuel control system to adapt to the clogged filter.

They keep adjusting and adjusting... so now the PIC control is not appropriate. Now, the Vendor comes and jsut bring it back to normal rate.

The fuel is ok and the smoke is reduced. I am sorry for those simple words and will be clear and detailed in the other days.

Thank you for your support,

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Power Generator "Surging"

01/05/2011 11:44 AM

Did you get all the green fuzzy stuff out of the fuel tank?

Seriously, what did you find?

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