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DP Transmitter Under Closed Vaccum Column

12/07/2010 3:13 AM

dear all,

i have one dp type flange mounted diaphram honeywell st 3000 transmitter....

i want to install it to closed vaccum tank...

will dp transmitter work in under closed vaccum tank???

total height of the tank is 1700 mm.. so, what should be the LRV and URV ???

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#1

Re: DP Transmitter Under Closed Vaccum Column

12/07/2010 10:13 AM

Is the liquid inside it going to boil?

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: DP Transmitter Under Closed Vaccum Column

12/07/2010 10:26 AM

ya....there is a combination of two crude material inside the tank which would be boil by the steam..under aprox -750 mmhg vaccum.

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#8
In reply to #2

Re: DP Transmitter Under Closed Vaccum Column

12/08/2010 12:49 PM

Once they have boiled away, the DP transmitter will read zero. On that premise, is DP the right measuring technique? Just what is in the vessel, why is it under vacuum, and what is the objective of the contents measurement, particularly if whatever it is is boiling away under vacuum?

And by the postings below, it would appear that vessel pressure is being measured, not contents level. All very confusing.

Please re-start by posting further details of the problem.

Curious minds need to know more, preferably by not playing a game of 20 Questions.

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#3

Re: DP Transmitter Under Closed Vaccum Column

12/07/2010 10:54 AM

Yes, the DP transmitter will measure head pressure from which you can infer level in a closed tank with applied vacuum if the tank port in the area of the upper vacuum is piped to the transmitter's low side port. The DP transmitter doesn't care whether the applied pressure (from the top of the closed tank) to its low side is positive or negative (vacuum), it corrects the head pressure measurement accordingly.

The URV and LRV depend upon the position of the lower tap (do you want it to read zero at the lower tap? If so, URV = 0) and the specific gravity (SG) of the material.

The transmitter's engineering units for level are typically head pressure in water column (mm H2O) or mercury column (mmHg). The DP head pressure measurement is ignorant of the density of the material, so the URV must take the SG into account, by multiplying the actual level by SG to obtain a URV; but dividing the measurement value by the SG at the receiver to obtain actual level.

That means that the head pressure reading from the transmitter will not be the actual level reading unless the material is either water or mercury with the corresponding engineering units.

For example, if the URV will be the upper fill limit of 1700mm (actual) and the material has a SG of 0.90, then the URV would be 1700 (actual mm) * 0.90 = 1530 mm (measured head pressure) w.c.

An indicator or receiver device, (PLC, DCS, whatever) converts the measured signal back to actual level by dividing by the specific gravity; a full tank at 1700 mm would have a measurement signal of 1530mm: 1530/0.90 = 1700 mm

When the density of the material changes, the indicated head pressure will change proportionally. Conversion calculations to volume or mass at the receiver are equally affected by density changes.

The boiling action is likely to produce noisy readings as the sensed pressure is affected by the bubbles from the boiling action. The damping setting can average readings to get a smoother output.

Any brand transmitter has two temperature limits, ambient (electronics) and the medium temperature. Is the steam going to cook the transmitter, as well as the stuff in the vessel?

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: DP Transmitter Under Closed Vaccum Column

12/07/2010 12:34 PM

thank you very much for good answer... but i want to connect the high tapping of transmitter to the lower side of the tank.. And the low tapping of transmitter is left open to atmosphere.... The length of the low and high tapping of the tank is 1700 mm ... And s.g. Of material is 1.8... So is it ok if i calibrate the transmitter at lrv=0 and urv= 1700 * 1.8=3060 mmh20 So

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: DP Transmitter Under Closed Vaccum Column

12/07/2010 12:50 PM

The high side is the flange side.

You can NOT leave the low side open to atmosphere if the tank is not open to atmosphere. If there is a vacuum at the top of the tank, over the material, you MUST pipe the vacuum signal to the low side of the transmitter. Piping the top space to the low side of the transmitter is not optional, it is mandatory.

Otherwise the variation in vacuum will appear as variations in head pressure and be inferred as variations in level. I suspect that the vacuum will vary significantly as the medium boils and the vapors extert a pressure.

Those LRV and URV values will work for SG at 1.8.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: DP Transmitter Under Closed Vaccum Column

12/07/2010 1:02 PM

ok... If i give the low tapping of transmitter to the top of tank through pipe then what shoud be lrv and urv,, If vacumm max= -750 mm hg Distance between low and high tapping of tank = 1700 mm S.g. Of material = 1.8.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: DP Transmitter Under Closed Vaccum Column

12/07/2010 2:54 PM

You'll have to submit a drawing/sketch with the locations and dimensions of the taps because I do not understand your tank or tap location/dimensions.

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