Steel Structure, Ceiling Cracks

You need to get a structural engineer to test the concrete for integrity and determine if these are just surface cracks or if the entire structure is weak due to bad concrete mix, etc.

I hope not, but it's possible that the only fix is going to be a wrecking ball.

What concrete?

Good point. It's a steel structure. The steel must be cracking..........that's scary.

There I go jumping to conclusions again. Maybe he could just weld the cracks closed.

We can tell him what the numbers on the welder mean.

I think you are probably right about the building being steel/concrete construction, but who knows? It's impossible to tell. (See how nice I'm being?)

I'd rather have cracks in my concrete than in my steel.

dear # 4

yes the cracks are in tyhe concrete, i heard about the carbone fibre as re-inforcement material. no one added or mentioned any thisg about this material. have you hear about it , do you know where i can get more details on it , it is my home work and meanwhile seeking some help.

thanks for your answer.

If you have access to Google, <click here>. You can spend an hour or two reading up about it.

thanks

i think my problem is going to be solved

i start contacting the given adress by you

many thanks

HOMEWORK problem you say?

Oh, well then.

I don't think anyone here has suggested an answer for your carbon fiber patch problem. I am not familiar with using carbon fiber to fix steel or concrete.

First off, find the cause. If you do not, any "solution" you apply will just move the problem (and probably make it worse).

Secondly, steel cracks can be welded and reinforced. Concrete cracks can be grouted and reinforced.

Again, not too sure about carbon fiber. What does the back of the book say?

-A-

For sake of discussion, lets assume that it is a steel frame bldg with RC slab floors in the parking garage: location matters if it were located in southern Ontario, I'd be worried that the winter road salt would get to the re-bars. $$$ Ouch!

Keep warm guys.

Vince

DEAR mr. vince.

thanks for your openion

first time i,m geeting a lot of answers , i can be more specific . yes the building is 4 floors only but the totyal area is more than 25000m2. the location is in the sate of qatar the small country who recently got the w.f.c. 2022. the ambiant tempreture is between 10 c at the winter to 55c in the summer , mainly in the carparking area. i hope it may be more helfull information and from step # 1 i shall write all information i have about this problem, i,m learning and i think there are people learning too.

thanks for the all members who are sharing us this discussion and in advance i wish all of you whereever u r happy new year ( 2011 )

the lover of the nature

Dear LON,

now that we know your location and size of the bldg, my impression is that this discussion can go on without solving your problem.

You really need a structural engineer to visually assess the problem and give you a full written report.

It can be due to simple shrinkage cracks due to missing expansion joints in the slabs and walls, or to other causes already expressed by members.

Keep us informed on the outcome.

We wish you luck.

Vince

Basic problem in steel and concrete structures are unequal expansion and contraction. Temperatures is varying a lot and must be varying everyday between night and day. Anywhere if temperature difference in a day is above 20Deg C, I have seen cracks come up. Basement cracks are again may be due to stress created by differential settling of foundations. Besides cracks spalling is another problem. With cars are emitting carbon dioxide , the formation of calcium carbonate leads to expansion in concrete/plasters and leads to cracks/spalling. Steel gets corroded. Repair for spalling is chipping to expose steel,paint it with redoxide after cleaning and reconcrete. For cracks try pressure grouting.

DEAR #2 I,M AGREE WITH YOU YES WHAT CONCRETE,

IS CONCRETE NEEDS FIVE YEARS TO START GEETING CRACKS, IT COULD NOT BE FASTER OR LATER,

WHAT KIND OF MATERIAL CAN BE USED AS RE-INFORCEMENT THE CRACKS AFTER FILLING IT WITH SOME FLEXIBLE MATERIALS.

THANKS FOR YOUR ?

If these turn out to be major defects - and it's only 5 years old - I hope the builder is still in business, and has enough capital (or insurance cover) to put it right.

Just had a horrible thought - I fervently hope you're not the builder!

dear # 6

i,m not the builder and have no capability to build such huge building

25000m2 from steel structure and partition wall internally .

car parking area.

you can park nearly 650 cars at a time

you can immagine the area.

roof parking area got cracks , but seems to me not so depth. i think it is healthy that the cracks shall be in the concrete and not in the steel structure it self. who knows any thing about fiber carbone component to repair such crakcs or there are new material which i have no idia about it .

many thanks

It would be nice to now where guest is located?

Hey you two, #'s 7 and 8, be nice, it's Sunday.

I just gave you a GA for your mathematical prowess. Jeez!

Where he's located? Are cracks different in different parts of the world? I think you're just being sarcastic.

Besides, I'm one of the people that gets relentlessly picked on here.

Just yesterday, I was either getting picked on here, or getting yelled at by my wife because I was kind enough to do a load of laundry and somehow an orange crayon got in there.............and into the dryer, where it melted and got all over the whole load.

I just can't win!

Oh, impetuous one you are.

Knowing the global location might give a clue to code requirements, if any. And that would help to know quality.

And, Grasshopper, yes the cracks are different in different parts of the world.

And finally, watch this with your wife. :http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1543292789?bctid=3130509001

That's funny! And so true, I'd rather get a nice tool for Christmas than underwear. Of course now my underwear has orange stains on them...........I hope I don't get in a bad car accident and have to go to the hospital. What would they think?

I have a feeling codes are not a big deal where the OP lives.

I'm Sorry,

Thank you Kramarat.

The reason I ask location is http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=53958 stuff like this.

Hey! That's happen to me too. Except it was my daughter that did it and I was to blame. It turned out to be a load I did after she did one, that caused the mess. The drum still has not recovered. What ever it was has fused itself to the drum wall. If I can get her to confess to it and what the substance was I will have a patent depending idea.

No need to apologize. I tend to be a smart a$$.

The complete lack of information is why people get impatient on here, it's a daily occurrence. And they don't leave if ignored.

I'm thinking about how much better the view is from those apartments.

Nothing but sky.

Maybe #6 frightened him off.

It could be. I wouldn't feel real comfortable in a 4 story concrete building that's full of cracks. I assume it's concrete.

More likely it's just another fly-by-night Guest, who won't have seen any of the answers, and prob'ly won't be back anyway. Ho-hum.

I've spent an awful lot of the time I've been on CR4 mulling over the "Guest" problem. I may've not signed up without a couple of "toe-in-the-water" Anonymous Coward posts (as it used to be).

Sometimes OP guests register when they get replies, and realize that someone does care enough to give them a sensible reply (usually asking for more detail).

Still can't decide.

[Cracks in a steel ceiling? ]

My cracked steel comment was a sarcastic response to lynch's sarcastic, "What concrete?"

Figured that .

it is true that there are a lot of things are under the sun . but how long we need to discover them an idia from the east with an idia from the east to north and south , we can make buty things for our future.

thanks for you grate sayes.

"sarcastic" ?

You cut me to the quick with that mean spirited remark.

I've always thought sarcasm was an attribute here. I try to include it in my posts whenever possible.................in an innocent, non offensive way of course.

the first order of business is find the reason for the cracks before u try to repair them. the first thing i would check is whether the foundation is stable. you'll need an engineer. second, was the building without heat, if you're located in a temperate climate. if so, fixing the cracks is feasable using conventual methods as long as the buildind stays at a stable temperature and humidity level. lastly, check that all the expansion joints are functionly correctly. a very big problem and not economically feasible.

if this man has walls that are cracking, i doubt if the integrity of the slab is the underlying problem. one colunm has settled. this is'nt unusual. if he's lucky, the building is done settling. all that can be done is to bust out the concrete around the low column and expose the anchor bolts. unloosen the anchor bolt nuts, then use a hydrollic jack or steel wedges to raise it to the correct elevation or perhaps an inch higher in order to put more weight on the pad so you're sure it's done settling i would'nt remodel until your sure that colunm is stable. i'ld wait at least a month.

you can check if this column is still settling by laying a 10' angle iron across the slab "after you bust the concrete away" and butt it against the column. scribe a match mark on the column. if the column settles, the match mark will tell you how far and how fast

There are different grades of steels. What grade of steel? What size?

There are different tempers. What temper?

The are as many different means of connection as there are stars in the sky. If welded, is the structure normalized. Unless you have visibility to all four sides, forget about carbon-fibre.

Each floor is (load bearing) under tension, static and dyanmic. When a vehicle moves, there is elasticity. Sometimes, even a person will cause the structure to flex. Is the load limit surpassed (underengeneered)? What about the foundation? The structure may be fine but the foundation is settling.

Have you performed a FMECA on the cracks? Until you know the nature of the materiel and it's faliure, you better forget about reenforcement.

thanks for your reply and valid ????????

Did any of you guys here about the parking garage that collapsed in Quatar? Quite the disaster I heard. The authorities are currently looking for the owners of Guest Construction Inc. Apparently there are some questions about just what this building was made of.

You might contact them through their attorneys. Dewey, Cheatum and Howe.

Or, their consulting arm, Fly-By-Knight.

no one said that the garge for car parking has failed in quatar. you are in very proffisional site and learning from very high sckiled people who is having years of experiance and i wished your proffisional reply. this site is not for lough or no meaning words . pls be an added value or leave the site for those who can be helpfull to me and others. profissional sites are for proffisional.

The carbon fibre strips which are glued to the concrete will not help. Or at best they might help in some very particular circumstances.

Carbon fibre strips are externally applied to concrete - prior to cracking - to increase the effective tension area of the concrete beam / slab ; they are helping the existing steel reinforcement.

Your problems do sound very significant and absolutely need a professionel structural engineer to help in the diagnostic of the structures problems.

This forum has given the only good advice which you must follow : employ a professional strucutral engineer.

dear sir,

thank u very much for your suggestion and i will do what you have said

First, hire a Registered Structural Engineer to evaluate the integrity of your building.

Second, hire an Attorney in case you need to proceed to litigation. Depending on where you're located (I'm assuming you're in the USA) the statute of limitations in regard to faulty construction may still be in effect.

Try to ascertain who the original Architect, Engineer and Contractors (all trades) were involved in your mess of a building.....do this before you meet the Engineer and Attorney.

Do you have a set of construction plans of the building, especially "AS BUILT" drawings (that record any changes and modifications made during the construction phase)? If not. try to obtain them from the Architect since the Owner of the building has already paid for the professional services. You should already be in possession of these.

Good luck!

Signed,

CaptMoosie, PE/PHD

Civil, Structural & Environmental Engineer

Please take a moment or two to read a thread before making assumptions.

To quote the OP (in #25):

"... the location is in the sate of qatar the small country who recently got the w.f.c. 2022 ..."

Not perfect, but certainly understandable.

many thanks