Using a 45 Degree Elbow

underground plumbing rules ( CUT & PAIST IN BROUZER) Pg 125.

Please turn off caps lock, and use a sweep.

90° Pipe Sweeps

It's been my experience that the use of any type of bend or sweep along a wastewater line or storm sewer will eventually become a location of "solids" accumulation, hence the clogging of the line due to slowing of the flow velocity, especially at time of low flow volume. The flow velocity at the outside radius of the bend will always be lower than the mean velocity and the velocity at the inside radius, just like what occurs in bends of rivers. streams and channels.

I always use a clean-out installed to grade just upstream of the bend: use a 45-degree Wye fitting vertically oriented followed by a 45 degree bend and riser pipe with a water tight cap at the top. For PVC sewer pipelines I generally do not like to use a clean-out constructed with anything less than 6-inch diameter PVC pipe and fittings. Solvent-welded joints are usually mandatory by code as well as ease of constructibility.

I believe the previous post is from an expert and should be taken as such.

Why thank you lynlynch!

I consider you an expert too, in many fields of study!!!

you never want to use a 90,that is asking for trouble,using a clean out with a double sweep is a good idea,also between the 2 45s install a 2' piece of pipe to make it less drastic of a transition. if it is a sewer lateral you have to install a clean out at every bend,and every 40'. if it is a long run with minimal slope you can install a structure that can be accessed for maintenance(cleaning) have the bottom of the structure a foot or so below the invert of both pipes,sand etc will settle in the bottom instead of building up in your line. the catch basins for storm sewer in the pine lands usually have this. i think it is mandatory in this area. the storm sewer regs have changed here,a lot of stuff has been changed and added such as vortech chambers,under ground recharge systems,no more than a 2" wide gap in the drainage face piece and grate,and i am still learning the changes. what size pipe and what is it made of. is it in the right of way ?

Your meaningful feedback is much appreciated.

The Pipe in question is 4 inch diameter PVC pipe carrying waste of the building (from lavatories, shower trays, floor drains) is exiting from the building and before it is connected to the gully trap enroute we need to use a 45 degree bend to clear the stairs at the entrance of the building. I just want to make sure that the use of one 45 degree elbow is allowed without a cleanout upstream of the elbow or must we provide the CO. Furthermore, the pipe is not a soil pipe so solids are not involved. Would it therefore pass without the cleanout?

And another querry to clear the confusion is about the need of the gulley before the waste is routed to the sewer manhole: Since all fixtures such as the lavatory, shower tray, etc., have their own P traps and are properly vented, what is then the need and function of the gully trap outside the building before connection to the sanitary manhole?

Many thanks in advance for your learned input.

its eventual connection to the

Your learned opinion and comments about the attached photos will be much appreciated. A shower tray and fan coil unit condensate is shown draining into a floor drain which then connects to the waste pipe.

the bend is the most likely place for a clog. the clean out next to the 45 allows you to run a snake at the point of obstruction. you really do not want to go in from the manhole with the snake or jetter. trust me. Anywhere in a sewer main where the main changes direction,like to compensate for a turn in the road you have to install a manhole. I would think the clean out is code in the lateral. not positive on that. but it is how i have always have done it.

That number 17 on the piece of card rings alarm bells.

Question for ENGINEER999 - is this in litigation?

Does it matter? No reasonable person would accept opinions given here into court.

So? Since when would lawyers and jurors be considered "reasonable people"?

(Of course, many are, but then many are not. And not all judges, either.)

OK, you got me there. But, I did have judges in mind when I spoke of reasonable people. Certainly not lawyers and most jurors, too.

I can't imagine any attorney introducing a printout from CR4 as evidence.

"Your Honor, I have here the expert testimony of 5 total strangers who are "Gurus" on the eminent web site CR4 which proves conclusively that my client was injured by the piss-water emanating from the poorly designed drain system."

As luck would have it, I just spent a couple hours today reconnecting a sewer that was knocked out by driftwood logs bumping up under our plant. Not even God would know why the place was piped like that....

It might be useful and/or interesting to know what connects up to what in these photos we've seen.

--Ed Norton

The 45s aren't the only problem here. They have two pipes coming in from opposite sides of each other. the flow velocity from one would just push solids up into the other to settle out. If one side got used less than the other or had sufficiently lower flow rates, it could slowly collect sediments. Why didn't they just 45 directly over into the main line just below the clean out there?

Opinions about technical discrepancies seen in the photos would be much appreciated and how these could be rectified. Many thanks in advance

If the fitting to the right of #17 is a floor drain, I don't see a p-trap to keep sewer gas from escaping from it. All the big lines in the room seem to connect to that fitting. If it is just a cleanout, maybe ok with a tight plug.

The three inlets to the floor drain are from the bath tub (on the right), a bidet on the line coming from opposite of no 17 and a lavatory draining into the floor drain from the left. The Floor drain that you presently see is without its cover has an integral P-Trap that from the outside does not look like one but there is the inbuilt trap. This Floor drain then discharges into the rest of the pipes shown on the top which then exit the bath room into the soil riser. The question that arises is whether the 45 degree bends shown before the above mentioned fixtures discharge into the floor drain are acceptable or not.

By the way this plumbing was done about 15 years ago and I have not heard of any problem but a similar situation has arisen and I want to do it better than was done in the past.

Many thanks

I am a layman but I don't like the look of the hub in the middle where three drains run in with two of them in opposition. I like wye connectors with cleanouts when in doubt. I have asked plumbers install cleanouts just in case. If you are not going to use cleanouts, at least use sweeps for the 90s. It is common sense. I have proven myself correct with inspectors with ideas that go against code, but you can't argue against the code. Theoretically the inspector has the final judgement and should bear final responsibility. Some just know the book but not much else when it comes to something out of the ordinary. Some are really awesome and give much credit to their creed.

Actually you can argue for something other than the code requirements if you are a Licensed Civil Engineer or Licensed Mechanical Engineer (depends on the plumbing location, jurisdiction and structure) and can support you arguments to the engineering head of the building department who could then approve the exemption from the code. However, all inspectors, unless a licensed engineer, should never circumvent code requirements or approved plans and specifications without authorization from the City Engineer for the building department. Such would be immediate grounds for dismissal under any jurisdiction, possible direct liability, and even the possibility of criminal liability should something happen to cause harm to occupants.

If a building inspector agrees to a modification proposed by the contractor that appears to violate code requirements, he should be fired immediately if for no other reason that to protect the City against tacit approval and liabilities. Obviously the contractor is responsible for the construction conformance as they are legally required to build in conformance with Laws and regulations of the land, which includes the various building codes and engineering design requirements for the project.