Questions for Environmental Engineers

there really is no such thing from an academic viewpoint, you cant take a course in environmental engineering that would be worth the paper it was written on. why/ the field variation is massive. An environmental engineer is someone who has "Skills" not training, then combined with ISO 14001 EMS qualifications, that they then apply to environmental tasks,my background is electrical and mechanical design engineering with many years work being paid by other people, not just self employed, this tells you if the skill has a recognised value, self employed tells you nothing on its own. I then went and studies EMS environmental management systems and then as an Auditor and then as a leader of audit teams, and after many painful exams am now a certified EMS ISO 14001 Lead Auditor, which is a two way street, it makes me able to apply "environmental engineering" from a skill base and fully trained EMS base in respect to ISO 14001, though as far as environmental engineering outside my areas of expertise that would be rubbish. simply because i hold qualifications and experience does not mean I am capable in all Fields, like say truck design??? wouldn't have a clue. and so on, so if someone says they are an environmental engineer, ask what fields, if they say all fields, you have an idiot. Think electrician, you have house or domestic trained, commercial trained, engine winders, computer electronics and so on.

So how do you start? an environmental engineer can be a builder who has gone on to be certified in ISO 14001, an electrician a mechanic etc etc.

The key being the ISO 14001 which is the world standard for environmental management systems, if you have no certification under this, you are just another engineer or builder, yes you may have all the right intentions but you are not legally qualified to give advice regarding environmental practices. Duty of care laws require any advices that can have a life endangering impact must come from a qualified source. risk of chem spills, pollutions, personal safety an so on.

So choose what you like to do and are good at, study that find a job and then do the ISO14001 basic EMS certification, then you will understand how what you are learning applies to your given field.

GA

I received a diploma in Water Resource Engineering Technology and later completed a science degree in physical geography. For all my work life, I was involved in environmental practices. I worked initially with a government inspection job and later owned and operated my own business. It is more important to get a very good foundation in many aspects of environmental work (chemistry, biology, hydrology, microbiology, geology, etc).

From the base you can hone in on the aspects of the environment you wish to be involved. It does not matter if it is in waste management, climatology, water pollution, water treatment, etc you should have a solid background and a good capability to research and learn. Learning is a lifetime experience and do not limit yourself to formal academic processes. My area of expertise is in groundwater microbiology and geochemistry. I was never specifically formally trained in either aspect but was more than willing to learn. I am now retired but can say that I always felt I was on the leading edge as very few people understood my queries in ground water microbiology. I was fortunate to have two very good mentors who became life long friends (one a prof and the other a lab manager) and we fed information off each other. My role was practical. With luck you may find a good mentor.

My suggestion then is to let the formal education provide the base and qualifications you need but then as you get involved in something environmental that is of keen interest, become an expert in a specific area. Learn more about that aspect that anyone else. Never stop the process of learning and then learn some more. Don't worry about finding things to learn, you can always participate with CR4.

Thank you Kevinm, I appreciate your advice and I feel like just being able to hear and understand these small tidbits have let me wrap my head around things a little more. I love science and chemistry, Microbiology, hydrology, particuliarly. I think Im going to try to pursue mechanical engineering along with environmental soil and water sciences, to build a good foundation. I believe the environment is more important than people believe. Not just for everday uses but to hang on to the best parts so generations following can enjoy the same. Anyways thanks for the comments. I really am super happy i found this forum, I couldn't find any good chats talking to real people. Thank you.

Thats exactly what i was thinking..Javahead!! Im going for ME and then Environmental Soil and Water Sciences.. I really appreciate your help and your words of advice thank you.

As mentioned mechanical engineering is good to pursue ( chemical not so much as that field is quite limited and in some places not a protected practice). Civil engineering also. Both are protected practices by law everywhere in US and in high demand in both the environmental fields and outside. A good understanding of chemistry is useful, but most water and wastewater facilities are designed by Civil Engineers with very little understanding of chemistry, sometimes when it comes to components like specialize plumbing for ozone etc. in the plants they have mechanical engineers involved. Other specialty portion of the plants are usually suplied by specific manufacturers who employ mechanical and some chemcial/environmental engineers. Most environmental engineers though seem to work either in the haz waste side and end up working more in hydrology/hydrogeology, permitting, compliance, remediation, etc. (though again civil engineers will dominate these fields also when it comes to the design aspects). The best area of focus for and environmental engineer is probably the permitting and compliance side with a strong focus on marketing and management, this would easily overcome any corporate or municipal preference for civil or mechanical engineers, as marketing always prevails over engineering in the real world and what most companies and municipalities really want are technically savy managers and PMs in preference to design engineers. A ground water remediation project typically even the smallest ones can go on for 10 to 40 years at a routine cost for project management, regulatory correspondence, monitoring and systems O&M of $100k to $250k a year for the life of the facility (with very minimal overhead towards things like proposals as you already have the project, and very low cost labor with little liability for products/deliverables). a PM on those projects who has a strong relationship (or is perceived by his employer to have) looks like a huge cash cow to the employer and they will promote the hell out of that guy. On the other hand you could have designed the golden gate bridge, but the risk would have ben huge for the company and unless the long term profit for the company was there, it would not be worth it for them to promote you.

Thank you RCE,

I appreciate the wisdom, Im going to be plenty useful in the engineering side of things but I hate marketing and Im not much of business man, although i understand the underlying value and how vital it is anyway. But being well rounded is marketable.

Well rounded actually works better for an eventual role in marketing or management. Focusing specialties are more suitable if you want to just deal with design/engineering aspects. A PM can always find someone who knows a in general how to engineer something, but specialists are fairly rare and worth more.

This is the only thing you need to know, and I suggest you take it to heart:

DO WHAT YOU LOVE.

Don't choose your major based on what you might be doing after college. Do what you love and make sure you are getting marketable skills along the way. The stuff that really matters for your job you will learn on the job. College gives you skills and teaches you to think. If you learn CFD as part of Environmental Engineering, then you can do CFD at a wide range of companies. If you become a manager, 99% of your engineering skills are useless anyways.

If Environmental Engineering is what you really want, then your first step is to get an honest view of it. Find a EE company and get some face time with somebody. MAKE SURE YOU UNDERSTAND BOTH THE GOOD AND THE BAD! I suspect that an EE writes lots of reports, talks to lots of lawyers, and deals with lots of fraud. You will also be dealing with local, state and federal beaurocrats, and your company may see you as an unwelcome cost.

1) Make sure of what you want to do.

2) Don't worry about its ability to get you a job or any other BS.

3) Pursue it honestly and treat everybody with respect until they prove they do not merit respect.

P.S. Mallet is the best QB in the NCAA. Tell him good luck from all of the Michigan fans. Crush their little buckeye nuts!

EE is an electrical engineer, not sure i am seeing the relationship betwen a EnvE degree going to work for electrical engineering (EE) firm. there would be no educational background to support the work positioning.

Unusual comment?? considering the primary sources of pollution come from energy production and the machines that use electricity and their efficiency is probably the single greatest focus of the next 100 years.

The primary component required to have 14001 certification for every firm in the world is a policy statement that "MUST" contain "a commitment to reduce pollution", without that you will not be certified.

Electrical engineers have the greatest ability to do this by efficient energy consumption design of energy consuming equipment.

Energy efficiency Labeling of products.

Energy efficient auditing of domestic houses

Energy efficient electric cars and their recharging using green energy

Solar design

Hydroelectric design

Wind turbine design.

etc etc etc

If that is not a foundation for environmental engineering then I don't know what is

The reason I find the term "GURU" below someones name a moot tag, because 1000 way off the mark answers still entitles the user this tag

Was that a joke?

Dude,

No offense, but you just scored an "Al Gore" the "He just doesn't get it" scale. Maybe you should get some sleep. Obviously from the post I abbreviated Environmental Engineer as EE. Since my degree is in Electrical Engineering, I can assure you that I did not confuse them.

I apoligize for confusing you, but unclench a bit.

Well then yes, it appears that you are correct in your statement that you don't know what environmental engineering is. I would suggest looking at a ABET progam standards for universities or just glance at the exam for EnvE. But then again I only have degrees in chemistry, environmental science and civil engineering (geeo-enviro emphasis) and a PE in CE. So I may not have the degree of direct experience with environmental engineering that you do.

"If you become a manager, 99% of your engineering skills are useless anyways."

I completely disagree with this statement; most all of your engineering skills can be applied to effective management.

Those with engineering skill-sets are well armed for management. I feel the best managers out there are ones that have an engineering background.

A well written presentation on the subject can be found here:

JavaHead

Since I was an engineering manager for many years, I agree with you. I would have been (^_more) useless without an engineering background.

Woooooo Pig Soooie. Go Razorbacks.

WOO....PIG....SOOIEE!!! He did have a pretty good season it would of been great to beat bama though. THank you very much for the advice I feel like you guys have really been honest with me. THank you..

Again If I didn't have the chance to reply to your response specifically, my apologies but THANK YOU GUYS for the responses I super appreciate it, and being able to talk to real world people feels great, you just can't get the same stuff from other students who think they know exactly who they want to work for when they graduate, and have an answer to every question in life. Anyways, I just finished up my first semester with 4 "A's" and a "B" and Im going strong, I also work for Frito-Lay as a merchandaiser, and have a family to take care of, so my plate is full. Again thank you for the words and I will definitely post again in the future, probably sooner than later. Thank you.

I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I say… "Welcome to CR4!"

You will find that we are an eclectic bunch but none the less helpful.

As you are both new to the forums and are a student, I would like to take a moment, in case you have not read the FAQ section, that we are not a homework site. Not that you would have asked us to do your homework for you, just thought I'd mention it.

But, we do realize that there are less than adequate professors, curriculums, texts, and teaching methods out there. And, like many of us, you will come across them in your studies. When you find yourself having more questions after a lesson then you did before it, and you're not fully understanding the subject matter, and you have tried individual research, but it's just not clicking… feel free to hit us up here on CR4.

Because, although we won't do your homework for you, we have a variety of personalities on the forums here with a vast array of knowledge, experience, and ability to take complex and convoluted topics and present them in common sense terms. Plus we love to mentor the young minds that will shape the future for generations to come.

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Going to school while working to support a family is not easy, especially once you hit your senior level courses that have a high contact hour requirement. Your efforts are admirable. Good luck and we'll see you around the forums.

JavaHead

My friends son after completing B.E Mechanical joined M.E Environmental Engineering at Dept. of Chemical Technology Mumbai,India. Now he has got good job with KPMG. He is touring throughout world.