Citizens Civil Rights Vs. Governments CRIMINAL SYSTEM.

Do yourselves a favour and investigate the road rules of around 1700 to 1900.

What do you think about safety belts etc?

I challenge you to go through hospital and police records where motorbike riders without

helmets were involved and report back here.

The FIRST Law for Moving Vehicles: Safe & Prudent!

Safety Belts, Should be CHOICE to use also! ( Manufactures Must install them.)

A true Study of the Riders that Could have avoided the Accident --- if they didn't have a helmet on Should be conducted!

Okay you gave us a amendment. I yet to see any violation of this amendment. In your states regulation of it's highways to require helmets to be worn by motorcycle riders that wish to use them. Would your like to clarify why you feel your rights are being violated.

Or are you just venting because you fell your better or your head harder then everyone else?

I rode a Motorcycle back when ya didn't even need Motorcycle on your License...or Required to get Insurance. Than came the "NINJAS" The Kids that rode them so fast, they were killing them selfs. So me the Harley Chopper Cruzzer... Has to put a helmet on?

Actually, no you don't have to put on a helmet. You can either pay the penalty for breaking the law or you can move to a state where helmets are not required such as Florida (for now).

After I had a Long Discussion with a Superior Court Judge... See Ordered to have My Motorcycle Impounded & Not Returned, If I was Caught With-out a helmet on! ( THAN SAID I NEVER WANT TO SEE YOU IN MY COURT AGAIN!!!) { Because I told her that her job was "NOT to inforce the Law! (in rules of Court: The Judge is the Final Decider of the Law!)

Well... I'm not getting my Bike impounded!!!

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-does-a-superior-court-judge-do.htm

Thanks: I added that to my Favorates... & Responded.

Hurling a chunk of steel down the highway at 70+ MPH is dangerous. When people are paying attention and trying to be careful during good weather it is dangerous. When people are lighting a cigarette with one hand, drinking or eating with their other hand, talking on their cell phone and driving too fast on a rainy night it becomes even more dangerous.

People are human (well, most of them anyway). They will be less than perfect in their judgment frequently. They may, at least once or twice in their life, do something that is just plain stupid. No matter what arguments are made there are going to be accidents. From what I see on the road there are a lot of crashes that are not accidents. Now, what are we going to do about it?

As a society we tend to care about other people and try to have a transportation system where everyone will still be alive tomorrow. Thus, given this and previous statements it makes sense that people on the highway have and use reasonable safety equipment. Most of us don't want to get hurt. Most of us don't want to hurt anyone. Most of us don't want family or friends to be hurt or killed. But, no matter what arguments are made there is risk on the road. Seat belts, air bags, headlights, tail lights, brake lights, etc. are all easy ways to provide some protection to people in cars and trucks. Helmets, good eye protection, gloves, long pants and sturdy shoes are an easy way to provide some protection to people on motorcycles.

All vehicles on the road are at risk of accidents. Motorcycles are harder to see and offer no protection to the riders so they are at the greatest risk. Should we try to keep everyone safe or should we treat the highway as a "Mad Max" movie set and not care?

It simply is not possible for the roads to be made safe for motorcycles by putting "Look Twice For Motorcycles" bumper stickers on your car. If that procedure worked I would put a "Look Twice For Cars" bumper sticker on my car and drop my insurance.

There are going to be motorcycle accidents/crashes. There are going to be motorcycle riders that are injured for life, have brain injuries and are killed. There will be a lot of guilty feelings for everyone involved even if it was either a real "accident" or the fault of the motorcycle rider. Insurance premiums will go up and lawyers will get rich from lots of lawsuits. In our legal system huge amounts of money will be paid and at times someone will go to jail, but the system can never make things "right". This seems like a very large increment of emotional and financial burden to place on others just because someone doesn't want to wear safety equipment.

P.S. If "the helmet gets too hot" is the issue then why doesn't someone make motorcycle helmets with air vents? I know that it wouldn't be "COOL", but it would be cooler.

Also, most of the Harleys and choppers seem to be more or less driving within the speed limit. But I have gone past several Rice Rocket crashes where I couldn't tell for sure if it was a crash site or someone had cleaned out their garage and piled the shop trash on the side of the road (I'm not kidding). Overall motorcycle riders seem to be driving better than the average car driver. But neither the overall car driver population nor the overall motorcycle driver population has a safety record to brag about.

Be safe out there. For most of us something will kill us before we are ready to go. Getting killed is a good activity to procrastinate on.

Bruce:

You seem SMARTER than most! If the Law inforcing the use of Helmets is for Safety... Than Why not EYE PROTECTION? ( There hasn't been a Lobbyist For That Yet!!!)

Freedom is dangerious! But: Better than dumb restraints!

I see that you noted that, Eye protection, is a safety equiptment! EXACTLY: "No law" for them ( I wouldn't & can't ride with out them) Does that mean there should be a law? NO... Common Sense should rule! DUMB people are dangerious!

Ummmm, a quick question for the OP: What's the discussion about the "Helmet Law" have to do with "Engineering"?

Appears to me to be an inappropriate subject matter for CR4 Engineering Forum....this discussion belongs in a law forum instead.

I am a FIRM Believer ( After Much Study ) That the "Helmet" is MORE DANGERIOUS on than OFF, When Riding on the Streets & Hi Ways! "YET There is a Law ... in a code book that tells me I must conform to a hazardous inforcement to ride my Motorcycle! ( Let alone "BYCILES") { Dangerious Equiptment, when opperating a Vehicle!}

You need to drink less before trying to write or drive.

You are certainly welcome to believe anything, but you need to do more studying if you actually want facts.

As for helmet laws, the position of the American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) is well reasoned:

"... The AMA believes that adults should have the right to voluntarily decide when to wear a helmet. The AMA does not oppose laws requiring helmets for minor motorcycle operators and passengers, believing that many young motorcyclists and/or their passengers may lack the maturity to make an informed decision regarding the use of motorcycle helmets. ..."

THANK YOU for the A.M.A. Lit! I was a member of A.M.A. in the Early '70s. but couldn't get enough support fighting the helmet law inforcement. There on the Fence Stance is Good enough for me NOW! I'm in the FIGHT to WIN!

Your FIRM belief means nothing on an engineering forum. This is ill-informed political garbage and nothing more. It does not belong here.

If you can present real data that shows that helmets cause injuries (contrary to the numerous studies that show that they reduce injuries) then present that data, but present it clearly and concisely, and use a spell checker. No such data exists.

If you want to ride your bike without a helmet, or drive at over the speed limit, or drive without your seatbelt on, or tamper with your emissions equipment, then go ahead. Pay the fines, and stop whining.

If you post here, it should have something to do with engineering. Read the rules.

Hey Bert... why not wear the damn lid and just enjoy your ride. It is not worth the grief in the long run. Trust me... you won't win the fight and will only waste lots of time you could be out in the wind. Take it from me... been there and done that.

My current ride is a 2001 Heritage Softail Classic Springer... before that... 75 FLH, before that... 58 Panhead with a 8" over glide with a 21" wheel, tank shift with a rocker clutch, before that... Volks/Davidson 3 wheeler.

Here is a shot of the 75 taken in 1980. Ride safe...

Thank You for your Advice... But a Torrential Government has taken my Rights, I'm not Sacrificing any Rights for Temporary Freedoms! We have solders away from home fighting, when the war should be here at home!

NICE PUTT: You remember riding with-out a helmet? Than came the HONDA NINJS... To fast for the kids that got them... Many of them got HURT! Than came the helmet "LAW"! ON HARLEY RIDERS... Beacuse DISCRIMINATION NOT ALOWED! Beware of the ONES THAT FORCE Stupidity!

The problem as i see it is if you are allowed to not wear a helmet and you suffer a head injury, who pays for the treatment ? if its you then thats your choice,

But if the state has to contibute to the treatment the state has the right to prevent you injuring yourself.

A Straight Jacket keeps you from getting hurt. Surely the doctors under Court order, are there to keep you safe!

Do we need Insurance to breath FREE Air? Could get infacema... ( I Do Have Health Insurance & Medicare & V.A. Bene's . But I Useto Ride WITH-OUT a Helmet for YEARS... I HAVE A BETTER SENSE OF WHAT IS AROUND ME, With -out a helmet. When I Sacrifice any of my Senses, while in trafic, or highway, I Put myself at a DISADVANTAGE!!! I have been a Rebel For Civil Rights, for a long time! The More Rights we let them take, the more they will take! The easy way out IS the easy way in! THE DANGER OF HELMWTS ON THE HI-WAY, IS A SAFETY FACTOR, RELATIVE TO THE OPERATION OF MACHINERY!

Is there something you are trying to communicate?

ALL CAPS is interpreted as shouting, so it weakens your argument. Shouting comes across a bullying. The words don't make sense by themselves, so you shout, hoping to intimidate. Such a strategy rarely works any where, but especially not here.

To counter the well-designed, scientific studies that have shown that helmet usage saves lives, you would need to present studies that show the opposite. Your own belief system has no significant meaning in an engineering and science forum.

All motorcycle manufacturers promote helmet usage because helmets save the lives of customers. Insurance companies promote helmet usage because it reduces the cost of claims, because of fewer deaths and debilitating injuries. Governments promote helmet usage because the cost to society is lower when helmets are used than when they are not. If you have links to studies that show the opposite, then post those links. If you don't have any real data, then your posting makes you your own worst enemy: some will view you as a wild ranting nut-case.

Perhaps you do not want to be taken seriously here, but if you do:

1. Don't use all caps. In this forum, posts with a lot of ALL CAPS come across as nit-witted, rambling, shouting rants. You will have people asking you to adjust your meds.

2. Present facts rather than you own personal beliefs.

3. Don't start threads that are political rants.

4. Read the site rules.

5. Use the spell checker. You are dreaming if you think that badly-presented ideas are taken as seriously as well-presented ideas.

6. Punctuate correctly.

7. Have someone else proof read what you have written, to see if they can make any sense of it.

8. Try not to mix two separate issues. Here you have tried to claim that 1. helmets are dangerous, and 2. that they should not be required to be worn by law. Any reader who disputes your first argument (essentially all readers who understand science) will then dismiss your second argument.

9. Post in an appropriate forum. Your second argument has some validity, and would be appropriate for a politics forum (but not here at CR4.) There are real issues around how many rights we give up for the greater good. (e.g.: "I'm in a hurry. Why can't I drive at 150 mph?" "Why are you taking away my money to fund the military?") These issues exist all the time in almost every aspect of life. Appropriate stuff to bring up in a politics or philosophy forum, but not here.

I hope that helps.